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Jul 9, 2022 10:39 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
When we first bought this property 27 years ago, we planned a pond that was going to be spring fed and about 140 x 70 and about 15 feet deep at the deepest spot. There is a ravine that runs through the middle of our property that has a very small stream running through it that flows about 10 months per year and originates from a spring on our neighbor's property.

When we first moved here, most of the property was wooded. The woods extended from the edge of our backyard all the way to the back of our property some 750-800 feet back. We cleared the trees all the way down to the ravine (about 250 feet) and somewhat beyond it and the width of our property (about 150 feet) in preparation (of course, we wanted to be able to see the pond from our house).

First, we had to get permission to build a dam. I designed an earthen dam that was approved. After that, we had to have a site survey. The site survey determined that there was a 25-30 foot area of wetland on either side of the 1-2 foot wide stream that ran through the middle of the ravine. We had to come up with a plan to relocate this wetland. Once again, I did some research and came up with a design that incorporated and extended shallow side to the pond that would support the relocated wetland. It was approved.

We thought we were in the clear when out of the blue we got about a 2-inch-thick packet from the State with pages of regulations and "studies" we had to have performed before final approval, including studies like endangered species study, historic buildings study (in case we wanted to flood historic buildings!), storm studies, run-off studies, and on and on.

After adding on the cost of the studies to the already high cost of building a dam and relocating the wetland, we decided to abandon the project.

Here are two pics of our "extended backyard" after we cleared all the trees to a point beyond the ravine. You can't actually see the ravine in these pics, but it is set in the area about halfway where the land begins to rise up. (Sorry for the small pics)

circa Summer 1999
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circa Spring 2004
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And this pic taken in May 2020. We have let everything grow back from the ravine on back.
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Jul 10, 2022 4:58 AM CST
Name: Kristi
east Texas pineywoods (Zone 8a)
Herbs Region: Texas Vegetable Grower Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 2
Moonshad0ws ~ how far are you from the nearest town? Texas doesn't regulate in that manner but once the water/pond is in place, they can claim the water providing the water flows into a state or federal tributary or lake.

The small pond on my property was manmade but not spring fed. It is from run off and deep enough that it holds water even during these droughts.

Weedwhacker, thanks for sharing that link. That is a delightful park. I am amazed that it is still in pristine condition. Were I ever to travel in that area, that park would be on the list. Now if you had to dig 40 feet deep for your pond, we'd miss you. Crying
Believe in yourself even when no one else will. ~ Sasquatch
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Jul 10, 2022 5:18 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
pod said: Moonshad0ws ~ how far are you from the nearest town? Texas doesn't regulate in that manner but once the water/pond is in place, they can claim the water providing the water flows into a state or federal tributary or lake.


I live on the outskirts of a city within a township in a county and state that seems to regulate everything. I even had to get a permit when I built my chicken coop! Grumbling
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Last edited by MoonShadows Jul 10, 2022 5:19 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 10, 2022 1:29 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Today we got another 5" dug out of the pond in what will be the deep end. We have about 3 more inches to dig down in the shallow end which will be about 24" deep and 10 more inches to dig down in the deep end which will be about 36" deep.

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I was watching a YouTube video last night of a guy who dug a garden pond in his yard by hand. He said it took him from May until August to get it dug. He said he never worked more than 1/2 hour a day, setting in his mind that it would take a while. He said this mindset helped him not to cut corners or settle for a more shallow pond. That's about what we are doing. We have set a goal/limit of 3 wheelbarrows a day of removal when we dig as not to become overwhelmed or overworked. Today, was easier with the cooler temps and low humidity.

I also got another 45 gallons of clay sifted so I now have about 90 gallons sifted that we will use to replace about 2" when we finish digging to cover the exposed shale before we put down the underlayment.

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This afternoon, I split about 4 wheelbarrows of firewood. Long workday, but rewarding.

Also picked some tomatoes, onions, peppers, beets and turnips today.
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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Last edited by MoonShadows Jul 10, 2022 1:36 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 12, 2022 2:23 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
After we were labeling all day, I picked some produce.

Left to right...

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string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.
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Jul 12, 2022 2:45 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
Alright! What time's dinner?
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Jul 15, 2022 1:27 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Today, we picked some of our onions (about 1/3). Here is a pic of them with our garlic (still drying) in the background.

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We also picked the American Purple Top Turnips and the Detroit Beets. We placed them in large totes with pine wood chips to preserve them down in the cellar.

We are going to plant another round of onions, beets and turnips. When we dig up the 3 raised beds of potatoes...probably another week or so...we are going to plant lettuce, spinach and cabbage in those beds.

Beets
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Turnips
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Jul 16, 2022 1:31 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Today's tomato harvest:

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And we harvested our potatoes in one of the three raised beds. The Russet and Red Potatoes aren't ready yet, but the Yellow Potatoes were, so we dug them up today. 54 pounds from an 8 x 4 raised garden bed. As we do with all our root vegetables, we have them drying on the front porch.

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“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Jul 21, 2022 7:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
It's just been too hot to work digging the pond the past week, and the next few days are supposed to be even hotter, so it is on-hold right now.

We are getting tons of tomatoes, peppers, beans, and cucumbers, and waiting to pull our red and russet potatoes to add to our 54 pounds of yellow potatoes we pulled last week. I planted more beets and turnip seeds the other day. We should be able to harvest them towards the end of September. Looks like we'll be getting a lot of acorn and butternut squash as well. The blueberries are finished, but the blackberries and raspberries are ripening fast.

We woke up yesterday morning to find 4 of our 5 chickens dead. The 5th was so injured, I had to put her down. I think it was either a weasel or mink that squeezed in between the top of the wall and the corrugated roofing. I found 2 tufts of fur stuck on the wire. There is a space of about 2.5inches because of the 2x4 rafters. Over 2 years and we have never had a problem with this caged run. I spent a few hours cleaning out the coop and run. It gave me a chance to really wash things down. This morning I bought some supplies to try and close the gaps. On Saturday, we are going to go to a chicken farm in Newton, NJ and buy 5 Red Sexlink Laying Hens (Cross between Rhode Island Red and Leghorn, also called Golden Comet). They are a very dependable breed that consistently lay large to extra-large brown eggs. We purchased some of them back in the 2000teens when we had a lot of chickens.

https://brodheckerfarm.com/

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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Last edited by MoonShadows Jul 21, 2022 7:57 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 21, 2022 7:20 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Sounds like your harvest is going great guns, Jim!

Very sorry to hear about your hens Sad
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Jul 23, 2022 1:47 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Very hot and humid today, but we worked outside for about 4 hours.

Here are a couple of pics of the new chickens. They are camera shy...and I don't blame them. They were packed into a metal trailer this morning in Lancaster, PA and transported to Sussex County, PA. Then, our 5 were put in cardboard boxes to make the trip to our place. They heads are probably spinning. It will take them a few days to acclimate to their new run/coop.

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Today's tomato and cuke harvest.

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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Jul 31, 2022 1:55 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
We trimmed our garlic today. Should be enough for almost a year. (This pic does not include the 8 largest ones we will plant in October for next year's crop.)
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And dug 44 pounds of Russet (Baking) potatoes to add to our 54 pounds of yellow potatoes. We still need to dig the red potatoes.
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Tomatoes are overwhelming us!
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“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Aug 1, 2022 6:07 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
Suggest putting out a trap to catch the varmint that did your yardbirds...

Killed them all!

At my house, sometimes an egg in the trap works... didn't help with the possum (this spring), that killed a quarter of my biddies before I finally shot it...

but usually... a havahart trap works... I shoot varmint through the bars of the cage... non target animals are released unharmed.
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Aug 1, 2022 8:29 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Too wet outside from last night's rain to work outside. I'm hoping the sun will pop out so we can get a few hours in.

Just cut up a bunch of yellow potatoes into cubes. Half went in the dehydrator and half went in the freeze dryer.

Just purchased a one-year subscription to Permaculture Magazine out of the UK. 4 issues a year and access to all 123 back issues. All articles can be searched which makes it easier to find topics. Only 13.99 £, 14.36 USD. https://www.permaculture.co.uk... I've already read a few articles about Russian Comfrey (Bocking 14 Cultivar). I am going to buy some crowns and get them planted in September. Not only a good medicinal herb, but it's tap root pulls up minerals that aren't normally available to most plants. Making a compost tea from it is rather easy, or mulching with its leaves, and very beneficial for other plants.
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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Last edited by MoonShadows Aug 1, 2022 8:36 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2022 6:18 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
I wound up buying 20 crowns of comfrey yesterday. (https://strictlymedicinalseeds...) I bought the Blocking 14 Cultivar (Russian Comfrey) because the seeds it produces are sterile. Regular comfrey produces viable seeds and can become invasive very fast. Blocking 14 can only spread through cuttings, so I will be able to control its growth.
Some Video Collages of My Projects at Rumble. No longer YouTube
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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Aug 5, 2022 10:09 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
We haven't done much pond work in the past two weeks because of the heat. So, the last few days we've been out by 7am in the morning digging more of the pond because the weather has been so hot by late morning/afternoon. I think we are just about finished with digging. I wanted to get down to 36" in the deepest part, but it looks like it will be about 32", which is deep enough. More rocks the deeper we go and more effort to get the clay/rocks lifted up and out of the pond! The shallow part will be 24 inches, and the 12-18" shelf that surrounds the two deeper areas will vary in depth anywhere from 3 +/- inches to about 12 +/- inches. This way I can plant a lot of plants according to the water depth they do best in.

I still have to put in 3-4 concrete blocks on the southern side. After that, we'll start at the shelf level removing any sharp rocks, then shave down the sides to the deeper levels to make them smoother. Finally, we'll remove any sharp rocks from the bottom and add in about 2-3" inches of sifted clay as an extra cushion before we put down the underlayment and liner. We have a ton of rocks we've been collecting from "the pit" and around the property that need to be power washed to remove the dirt and any lichens.

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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
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Aug 5, 2022 10:41 AM CST
Name: Johannian
The Black Hills, SD (Zone 4b)
2Thes. 3:3
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Garden Research Contributor Sempervivums Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
Awesome! *as my face gets greener*

No, seriously though, that's great. I'd really like to get out and do what you're doing with the pond, I just don't have the time right now. Someday, though, I'd like to dig a pond, and I'll have your posts here to help me out. Thumbs up
“Honorable is the one who prudently avoids danger (provided he does not compromise himself).” -Sir Thomas More
Profile picture is a picture of our Kängal, Mamanska, when he was 7 months old.
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Aug 5, 2022 12:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Johannian said: Awesome! *as my face gets greener*

No, seriously though, that's great. I'd really like to get out and do what you're doing with the pond, I just don't have the time right now. Someday, though, I'd like to dig a pond, and I'll have your posts here to help me out. Thumbs up


LOL. Your face may be green, Johannian, but my face is red from all that digging and hauling. However, there is something really satisfying about taking on a project like this and doing it all by hand as a senior citizen. Projects like this help to keep me young and in better physical shape than if I just hired someone and watched them do it for me.

We got another 10 cubic yards of wood chips delivered today. I am really hoping we can get the first layer done of the 8500 square feet before the winter gets here, but we will need to get at least another 80-100 cubic yards down before then. Now, that we have a reliable source of wood chips, our biggest challenge is to find enough cardboard to put down underneath to snuff out the grass.
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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
Last edited by MoonShadows Aug 5, 2022 12:50 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 5, 2022 1:51 PM CST
Name: Johannian
The Black Hills, SD (Zone 4b)
2Thes. 3:3
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Garden Research Contributor Sempervivums Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
Yeah, and I definitely would go out there and do it, but as a teen, the parental approval is still needed. My parents do want to make a pond as well, it's just not the right time for them. Plus, as I've already said (I think), we do have a natural pond. It just doesn't have any liner or even rocks to hold the water, so when there's a shortage of rain, it all dries up.
“Honorable is the one who prudently avoids danger (provided he does not compromise himself).” -Sir Thomas More
Profile picture is a picture of our Kängal, Mamanska, when he was 7 months old.
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Aug 5, 2022 2:07 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Northeast Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Gardens feed my body, soul & spirit
Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Fruit Growers Seed Starter Canning and food preservation Region: Pennsylvania
Johannian said: Yeah, and I definitely would go out there and do it, but as a teen, the parental approval is still needed. My parents do want to make a pond as well, it's just not the right time for them. Plus, as I've already said (I think), we do have a natural pond. It just doesn't have any liner or even rocks to hold the water, so when there's a shortage of rain, it all dries up.


Sounds like you want to build a pond that holds water all year really bad. Hope it happens for you soon!
Some Video Collages of My Projects at Rumble. No longer YouTube
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My PA Food Forest Thread at NGA
“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)

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