Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Discussing Sempervivum stolons

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twitcher
Mar 4, 2013 9:33 PM CST
Clint, Didn't mean to imply you were complaining. It is discussion and sometimes disagreements that help us all learn.

Having said that, I would like to comment on the "umbilical" reference above, especially the implications in relationship to rooting. It's been my experience that different varieties of semps work differently with regard to the stolons and offsets. This has been discussed in detail in some of the earlier posts in this forum. The stolons on some varieties never die off, regardless of the size of the offsets or their rooting status. While stolons do help the offset to gain size, once the offset has grown into a young rosette, it is fairly independent. You can have multiple generations of offsets/rosettes, all still connected. For this reason, I consider the offset to be an independent plant once it gets to about 1/2" (varies with the innate size of the typical rosette, of course). The offsets are not dependent upon the survival of the stolon. Rather I believe the stolon is simply a strategy of producing more plants further from the mother rosette (In other words, send the stolon out away from the home, before producing the baby plant) Not all semps do this. (Heuffelii rarely produce any stolons, but I have seen them on stressed plants)

Some other observations regarding stolons and offsets:

1) As a propagation technique, if you sever the offset from the stolon very close to the offset, the offset will grow independently and the stolon has a high likelihood of creating additional offsets on the stolon. If you sever the offset from the stolon closer to the mother rosette, then the stolon is more likely to die off and not produce additional offsets on that stolon.

2) If the offsets remain on the stolons when the mother rosette blooms, then there is an increased likelihood that the offset rosettes will also flower. This is not desirable since you could easily lose the variety. I have seen this happen a number of times, but not done any experimentation to demonstrate this. It seems to be more probable when the stolons are thicker and healthier, which varies with variety.

3) Rosettes that are not allowed to produce a stolon (or do not produce them) or offsets will tend to live longer than rosettes that mature their stolons and produce offsets. While it is difficult to stop the process of creating stolons, this can sometimes be done by cutting the rosette back severely and removing the growing tip. In may cases, however, this will also trigger offset production, the opposite of what you are trying to do.

I'd really like to argue against the idea that offsets need to or should remain on the stolon until they develop roots. This belief is very common, but I don't feel it is necessary nor actually desirable. Along this line, I really don't care if plants sent to me are rooted on not, as long as they are healthy. Really, with semps it doesn't matter much.

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Mar 4, 2013 9:48 PM CST

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Twit here is an example of 2) If the offsets remain on the stolons when the mother rosette blooms, then there is an increased likelihood that the offset rosettes will also flower.
S. 'Hookeri'
Thumb of 2013-03-05/valleylynn/b0deb6 the beginning of blooming process on short stolons

Advancing in the process
Thumb of 2013-03-05/valleylynn/b221ee

Full Blown
Thumb of 2013-03-05/valleylynn/9be89c

I was very fortunate to have several offsets that did not bloom. It was a close call.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
Mar 4, 2013 10:01 PM CST

Good information. Can that be put someplace were we can reference that.
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Mar 4, 2013 10:08 PM CST

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It is done sprincolor. It is now it's very own thread. Good place to have more discussions on this topic.
Twit is a great teacher, I have learned so much from him over the last few years.
Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Mar 4, 2013 10:23 PM CST
[Last edited by clintbrown - Mar 4, 2013 11:12 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #367642 (5)
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
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Patty
Mar 4, 2013 10:31 PM CST
Twit, thank you so much, I love learning more about semps!
Patty 🌺
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Mar 4, 2013 10:43 PM CST

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Twit is the one that finally got me to try surgery, in order to save a blooming semp from extinction. It worked. Hurray!
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
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Patty
Mar 5, 2013 12:07 AM CST
Lynn, exactly what did you do?
Patty 🌺
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Mar 5, 2013 1:11 AM CST

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I split the thread and created a new one so we don't lose this topic. It has very useful information.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
Mar 5, 2013 1:13 AM CST
Those are great pictures for examples. Thanks
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Mar 5, 2013 1:16 AM CST

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It was a new plant for me. I was horrified when that happened. Since then I have experienced what twit explained above in a different cultivar. After that I have been cutting the center out of the rosette and severing the offsets if I don't have replacement plants.
All thanks to twit for teaching me how to do it. Lovey dubby
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
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goldfinch4
Mar 5, 2013 2:16 AM CST

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I don't know why, but for some reason it never occurred to me that "If the offsets remain on the stolons when the mother rosette blooms, then there is an increased likelihood that the offset rosettes will also flower." I've had it happen a few times too and will watch that more closely in the future. Thanks for another good lesson Twit. We miss seeing you here on a regular basis. Lovey dubby
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Mar 5, 2013 9:08 AM CST

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I agree with Chris. Hoping that soon you will be back with us on a regular basis.

Just a thought, a good example of being able to root without assistance from a stolon, is how Jovibarba offsets detach from the parent rosette before forming roots.
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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goldfinch4
Mar 5, 2013 9:43 AM CST

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True - they run away from home before settling in and putting down roots! nodding
Cubits Store: The Sempervivum Patch - plants, containers, accessories!
Also stop by Timber Treasures and Garden Buddies on Cubits
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Mar 5, 2013 9:50 AM CST

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nodding
Name: Kate
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Eviesmummy
Mar 7, 2013 1:20 PM CST
I must have missed this thread, what interesting information. Thanks for sharing I tip my hat to you.
Kate UK
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Mar 7, 2013 5:14 PM CST

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Twit is the best at explaining things in a way that is easily understood. Thumbs up

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
twitcher
Mar 7, 2013 8:16 PM CST
Gosh and golly *Blush*
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Mar 7, 2013 8:40 PM CST

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There is our Mr. Thinker. Group hug
That's Thinker, not Stinker. Sticking tongue out
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Mar 7, 2013 9:53 PM CST
Good info Twit, thanks! I tip my hat to you. Hurray!
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