Q nigra especially, but are the branches and roots compartmentalised? We disturbed ground roots, which made it settle to one side, plus it would be a danger to what needs to be brought in, so it is coming out, but how much damage could have been done?

Oaks leaning like that is something I often see after there's been thinning of the forest.

They'll hang on for years w/o falling over.

It's kind of an unfortunate look, they would be first cut when I need firewood, but I usually leave them alone until then.

I'm confused as to what the question here really is.

@Arico, sorry to confuse. Some trees are compartmentalized, so If you disturb the roots the whole tree connected to that root dies. Like a maple will do. Root dies, branches die connected to that root. I personally have never seen an oak respond to root damage that way, but our Water Oaks ( Quercus nigra) are not one I have much experience with. I couldn't find zip about the answer I wanted, so asked about it here. Mostly I find answers in the Florida section about water oaks.

The only compartmentalization in plant physiology that I'm aware of:

Whenever a tree's living tissues get infected, it chemically seals off a large portion of those tissues at the different wall boundaries to try and prevent the infection from spreading any further. This leaves those sealed off tissues unable to partake in further growth; essentially making it a case of 'amputation or death' choice.

Water in trees travels from the roots to the shoots via the xylem, which is composed of dead, hollow cells interconnected to each other both longitudinally (perforation/sieve plate) and laterally (pits) . So Logially (to me), this would lead me to believe that the death of any one root cannot block water flow to any particular part of the canopy resulting in the death of said part.
I need to ask around, but I believe it's the imbalance of nutrient/water needs vs. availability that causes parts of the canopy to die.

With regard to compartmentalization in woody plants, Dr Alex Shigo discovered that trees deal with injury and decay by erecting physical and chemical barriers that serve to 'wall off' the injury/decay from healthy tissue. You can learn more by using the searchwords Shigo CODIT, 'CODIT' being an acronym for 'compartmentalization of decay in trees).

When it comes to direct relationships between specific roots and branches, how strict that relationship is varies significantly by species. Woody plants like junipers and yews have a relationship between roots and branches that is so strict, when a root or branch dies, it's counterpart also dies. There are yews in the UK so old and large that the the entire trunk has rotted away, leaving a circle of vertical living veins connected directly to a single branch, which then divides into higher orders of branches. IOW, the branch served by a single root divides into secondary, tertiary, quaternary ..... branches, but the root is connected to a live vein which connects to the base of a primary branch. Thuja occidentalis also has the same direct root to branch connection such that an injured root or branch affects the counterpart it's connected to.

In other trees, the connection is less direct, meaning that destruction of or damage to a root has a widely varying degree of impact on branches and destruction of or damage to branch has a widely varying impact on roots. In some tree species the movement of water, nutrients, and photosynthate can readily move diagonally, such that damage to a branch or root doesn't have a significant effect on it's opposite end counterpart. In trees where water/sap flow moves diagonally with facility, the closer the damaged root or branch is to a branch or root vertically aligned with its counterpart, the more likely one is to be affected by the other. IOW, a branch 2 ft directly above a damaged root is much more likely to be killed or affected by the demise of its counterpart than if the branch was 10 ft directly above the damaged root.

Al

Al, I am usually somewhat put off by long posts, but yours are always worth thorough reading.

Oh, Al... I read that as AI

Been trimming all types of trees for 30 years. I'm no expert just want to care for all the trees I planted over the years …over 150…. to protect them from harm. ie: disease/ storms an property. Most trees are trimmed to be sail-worthy for winter storms and trimming out any crossing branches and thinned out for adequate airflow. I have a small tree collection of various species of trees in the PNW.

The rule of thumb for trimming trees from working with trained arborists over the years is to never thin or clear out any more than 1/3 of the canopy from any tree. There are a few exceptions…removing too much from a tree especially if not well established can cause the tree to go into to shock without enough leaves for photosynthesis to support part or the whole tree . The best time of year to prune evergreen/deciduous trees is late fall or when they are dormant.

In my experience if enough of the root system is destroyed or detached, the tree will die. As a general rule, 20% of the root system can be destroyed before the tree will show any signs. In my garden gophers, ground squirrels have damaged tree roots gnawed roots off leaving only two main roots as long as the main root is not damaged the trees is ok. Then by examining the tree and why it's is leaning in this particular case is done by carefully digging around the tree root area and discovering nubs left that were chewed on roots. I have managed to save a few small trees with roots eaten more than 40% from the total root by carefully replacing the soil under the small tree then supporting and secure the tree in place. Blocking the entry to the tree with traps and catches the gophers.

When all else fails and considering the safety of any tree call a Certified arborist. Sometimes just a minor trim is all that is needed. Every year in the PNW we hear of a tree falling on a home, car or other property that could have been prevented .

OK maybe a bit too long …

Thanx guys, chuckl. This tree could possibly fall on structures now that the surrounding pines, yaupons, smilax, and grape vines have been removed. The area is deep iron ore sand that water tends to sink into and run underneath if we get lots of rain. Really tall trees that have just also barely made it thru our unusual intense heat/drouth. No groundhogs here. Armadillos, yes. We didn't plant them, they were part of the creek bottoms this area is in.
@stone the oak wasn't really leaning, the trachoe picked its root up. Now, the sweetgum is leaning near it, but from rain and isn't in the picture, it won't hit anything when it goes down.

Trees that grow in a grove with other trees and shrubbery tend to form one canopy and root to hold up that canopy. If you take one tree out of the grove, it changes the dynamics of the entire grove. Other trees start falling too.

We lost a big oak in our (seasonal) creek bottom this last winter. Since then, every oak in that area has fallen. These trees are well over 100 years old but the wind now hits the trees differently and they are no longer stable because they aren't rooted in the right direction.

Appreciate the extra explanation of the tree situation. Sounds like you got it all sorted in the best interest of property and or other.

Lucy68 said: Trees that grow in a grove with other trees and shrubbery tend to form one canopy and root to hold up that canopy. If you take one tree out of the grove, it changes the dynamics of the entire grove. Other trees start falling too.

Wind is part of it...
But what I was talking about is where the supporting structure from the canopy is suddenly removed and the trunk isn't strong enough to support the top...

Those trees hold each other up...

You see it when planting saplings that have been limbed up...
Remove the stake and the trunk can't support the top... Those you can tie back up... those mature oaks... not so much.

No, I can't even wrap my arms around them. I don't think a stake would have helped in my case.

Chuckl, my neighbor was so happy to see the tallest pines on his eastern front go down, they brought us a cherry pie, chuckl. Drizzling rain today, so I expect the 2 yr old stumps will quit burning. I need more than an inch tho.

@ kittriana Looks so much better … no more worries…that job was deserving of a cherry pie….from neighbor…
The pro tree lumber companies here are all great. I have had a few trees removed for various reasons over the years …these guys are amazing to watch …
They have there own utube channel..as they problem solve cutting down tricky 100' trees.
https://youtu.be/qVbj8gNtEI0?s...

Bea, you guys have some seriously large trees...we had an expert come in and take down 5 or 6 large dangerous pines- cost was 500$ a tree, but we did these, or my SIL and Grandson did, I can do small stuff with my little chainsaw, enough to make me hurt for a week, chuckl.

@ kittriana oh yes I hear ya the pain is real. I too need to use my lil battery op chain saw. I just luv it and the batter op pruners. Oh they are heavenly light weight saves the arm/hands. They have really come down in price compared to just a few years ago.

Yes we do have a lot of very tall trees, 100' or more around here. Some of the Doug fir and red wood trees are over 100 years old. Every few years I have all the trees cleared of dead branches and crossing limbs I can't reach, just to keep everything sail-worthy for winter storms. Sometimes we have serious wind and ice storms which could damage trees and property if not inspected once in awhile for issues I can't see and diseases. At least this way I am covered if any damage happens the insurance companies are getting fussy with coving damages from storms. And the past few years the forest fires here has taken a toll on many insurance companies. But living on the west coast we also have earthquake insurance.. It's always something. Also this past spring we had the first typhoon run thru the pacific area. Missed us thank goodness …

I am relieved to know those trees were removed near your yard , property .
Now you have a brand new area to plant whatever you choose.

Kids are planting a small house, chuckl

porkpal said: Al, I am usually somewhat put off by long posts, but yours are always worth thorough reading.

One gains a lot of useful information from Tapla's posts.