Pacific Northwest Gardening forum: Roses in our wet climate

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Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
Aug 15, 2013 12:40 PM CST
My husband has graciously offered to take on our small rose bed and I would like to get him 2-3 new ones of his own so he has a bit more ownership. I'm of course looking for easy-care, issue-free roses that will do well in the PNW. I initially posted over on the rose forum, but they have suggested I get ideas from this forum to find out what specific cultivars have done well in my particular climate. Here's what I currently have: Pink Fairy, Iceberg, Spanish Rose, Chicago Peace. I also had two NOIDs that have reverted to the root stock and will need to be yarded out. Here's a photo of the current bed - the fence runs N-S and has full sun with good air circulation. Even with disease-resistant shrubs, I still battle black spot, mildew, and aphids. I prefer to buy from local nurseries rather than mail order. Any rose cultivars you have had good luck with? I rather like floribundas but am not wed to them. Oh, I also have a Cecille Brunner (sp?) climber in a different location. Thanks as usual.
Thumb of 2013-08-15/Bonehead/1a9a77

I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Stephanie
Salem, OR (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Garden Ideas: Level 1
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kosk0025
Aug 15, 2013 1:13 PM CST
My favorite rose in my yard, and also seems to be perfectly disease free, is 'Queen of Sweden'. I also love 'Abraham Darby'. Both are David Austins. Most of his do extremely well in our climate. I order all of my roses from Heirloom Roses in St Paul Oregon. They arrive in beautiful condition. They arrive small, but grow very fast.
[url=www.poppiesandthistle.com]www.poppiesandthistle.com[/url]
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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springcolor
Aug 15, 2013 1:38 PM CST
Deb,
I use to grow about 25 different roses here but am down to about 6 or 8. Just too much work. I have Master Lincoln which is a beautiful dark red tea rose, very resistant to disease. Love Peace but will be similar to your Chicago peace. In Snohomish there is a place that specializes in roses call antique rose farm. I have never been there but my brother says it's a great place for roses. Bet they could give you an ear full. It's on sparengeti (sp) Rd. Just off of Hwy 9 where you would turn to go to the Snohomish airport.

I too have 'Abraham Darby' Very fragrant and ruffled rose. Mine tends to rot a bit if we have any length of rain. I always went of the Tea Roses so this was very different but is a good grower and disease resistant. I still have it.
Do not order from Jackson and Perkins online. I ordered from there about 5 years ago because this use to be "The Place" to order from. Not to happy with them! Thumbs down
Also, Now days many roses are grown on their own root stock, this stops you from getting your graft frozen and wild rose from growing. Not all are doing this.

Good luck and try to find some that smell nice, that will be hard to do.
Julia
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Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 15, 2013 6:11 PM CST
You probably already know that Knockout roses need zero care, but have blooms that are blah at best.
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
Aug 15, 2013 6:14 PM CST
I actually know very little about roses - they have never been my favorite (until they bloom...) and I have not spent much time researching them. Glad to turn over to Gary, and maybe he'll become one of those old rose curmudgeons?
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 15, 2013 6:36 PM CST
All I know is, the previous owner planted two rose bushes in deep shade, under trees, surrounded by tall bushes, in heavy clay that's about 80% tree and bush roots.

They look like dead wood, except for the black fungus that looks pretty vigorous. A few leaves each year.

Then, inexplicably, a few big gorgeous blooms!

My neighbor has a really gorgeous coral rose entangled with an old, pruned lilac. Tye single branch shoots up 8-10 feet, and then a few heart-stoppingly lovely coral blooms appear way up there in the sky.
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
Aug 15, 2013 9:03 PM CST
That's the thing about roses --- so much angst and neediness, then -- bam -- they give you a beautiful fragrant bloom. OK.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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springcolor
Aug 15, 2013 9:41 PM CST
Here you go Deb,
Thumb of 2013-08-16/springcolor/193cf2 Thumb of 2013-08-16/springcolor/a2443c 'Master Lincoln' Foliage looks good for this time of year.

Thumb of 2013-08-16/springcolor/017553 Thumb of 2013-08-16/springcolor/32253f'Abraham Darby'

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Name: Jewell
South Puget Sound (Zone 7a)
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Jewell
Aug 16, 2013 9:55 AM CST
First I am going to say I have black spot and bare stem roses. I don't spray and roses in the front yard only get rain for watering. That said I have one Austin rose ( forgot the variety, but have two cuttings from it surviving also)
Thumb of 2013-08-16/Jewell/62e4fd. I plant lavender or other plants around the base to help cover up the ugly stems. Blaze is a climber that performs spring and summer. It used to have a clematis that hid its leafless structure, but still shows off on the trellis.Thumb of 2013-08-16/Jewell/344708

I have a Don Quan planted with the Austin in one location. These three and their offsprings have survived my 20+ years of neglect, but I am sure there are better more black spot resistant varieties out there. Have fun searching.

Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 16, 2013 10:51 AM CST
>> so much angst and neediness, then -- bam -- they give you a beautiful fragrant bloom.

Maybe that's why roses are symbolic of romantic love. Angst and neediness, sometimes. Quite a lot of attention and effort required to sustain it and let it flourish - for sure. Dozens of possible pitfalls and potential problems, yes.

But the rewards are great.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 16, 2013 1:28 PM CST
Actually, if you find the roses that are suited to your climate, they are weeds. It's a myth that they need to be pruned every year. Just prune out the dead or diseased wood when you see it. Any other pruning is just to shape the plant. After they are established, they really don't need any more care than any other plant in your garden. They just need water and feeding about three times a season. The repeat bloomers need deadheading, but so do other plants.

The only time a rose really needs a lot of work is if the plant is not suited to your climate. Then you end up coddling a plant that will never thrive. I have a no-spray garden and tolerate some disease. I did get rid of a lot of roses I brought with me from SOCAL when I moved to the mountains. It took too much work to keep them happy.

It is the hybrid tea rose class that has the reputation of being a lot of work. That's true if you follow the ARS guidelines on how to grow good roses, but they are growing roses for exhibition purposes and you don't need to do that much work to just grow garden roses. There are many classes of roses that are not nearly as fussy as the HTs. The only HTs I grow in this garden are the ones I can neglect.

'Don Juan' is readily available and has certainly passed the test of time since it was first introduced in 1958. Since it is a climber, you can train it horizontally across your fence and it would look stunning.

Here's a link to a friend of mine who has a listing of the roses she grows on HMF. She's green up to her elbows. You can send her a private message (PM) and she may be able to help you with some suggestions of roses that do well in your area.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=3.20764&tab=1

Rick, roses need about 6 hours of sun to be solid roses. As long as you are growing the plant in shade, it will reach for the sun, have fewer blooms and never thrive and be the rose it has the potential to be. You'd have the same problems with any other kind of sun-loving plant sited in shade. Give the rose what it wants and you'll have a healthier plant.

OK... I'll get off of my soap box. Smiling

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Aug 16, 2013 1:33 PM CST
Lyn, your soap box was very informative. Feel free to climb up anytime.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Mark Mallon
seattle wa
Region: United States of America Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Southwest Gardening
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a2b1c3
Aug 16, 2013 1:44 PM CST
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Thumb of 2013-08-16/a2b1c3/748fd4
I have seen roses growing out of blackberry patches. Whats hard around here is having no black spot

Thumb of 2013-08-16/a2b1c3/0fa483


just pinch it off when you see it and throw it in a plastic bag in your trash

or get a disease resistant variety

Thumb of 2013-08-16/a2b1c3/a6079a
Thumb of 2013-08-16/a2b1c3/22400d
this one is the same age in the ground planted right next to the other one and never has black spot

both have good if different white flowers for most of summer, more so when its not as dry as its been
i got both at the Washington park arboretum


DON'T PANIC
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 16, 2013 1:52 PM CST
Oh, mercy ... you do not know what you are saying Smiling Smiling

I am a rose heretic and am constantly testing the "rules of growing good roses" and have found that the roses do just fine if I don't bother with all of the work they say needs to be done to grow good roses !

To me, the best teacher is the rose, so I do a lot of experimenting Hilarious! I've managed to kill a lot of other plants, but I've never killed a rose and I really don't want to put in the time and effort to grow a rose that doesn't like my style of gardening.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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springcolor
Aug 16, 2013 2:36 PM CST
Go Lyn, Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
I just know what my dad taught me so he must have been following ARS. Very interesting reading!
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 16, 2013 2:52 PM CST
Thank you Smiling

I'll put this thread on my "watch list", but I am going to say up front that I cannot suggest roses to grow in your climate because I haven't grown roses in your climate. A rose that is good for me may be a disaster for you.

If you are interested, I can tell you how to look up the rose gardens listed for Washington state on HMF and you can check the list of roses site users say they are growing.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 16, 2013 3:28 PM CST
It makes sense that all the fussing is only needed when we try to grow a rose where it doesn't get what it needs.

>> Rick, roses need about 6 hours of sun to be solid roses.

We do have a lot of sun in the summer, just not where the previous owner planted those!

As for the rest of the year, it varies between overcast and intermittent drizzle.
Do they need six hours of sun per month, or six hours per year?
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 16, 2013 5:32 PM CST
Hilarious! It's six hours per day.

It doesn't matter if the skies are overcast as long as the plants are not planted in shade, if you select the kind of rose that will work in that kind of light. Roses have several bloom forms defined by the number of petals in the bloom. When most people think of roses, they think of the hybrid tea rose form, but there are some real beauties that do not look like hybrid teas and will perform better in your conditions because they often have fewer petals and open well with less intense light.

Almost any rose with fewer petals and light colored will open well without intense sunlight. In fact, they will do better because they are less likely to be "fried". Roses with a single, semi-double and double bloom form are the most shade tolerant, but that is a generality.

The rose class called 'hybrid musks' are generally considered to be shade tolerant. That does not mean that they will do well in a shade garden, but that they can handle the low light conditions you have described quite well. Joseph Pemberton is supposed to have been the originator of of this class of roses and and he bred roses in England ... low light conditions, from what I have read.

Here's a link to his breeder page on HMF...
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=7.6039

You can click on the PLANTS BRED to get a list of live links to the roses he introduced.

But you are not limited to this class. There are single, semi-double and double roses in several rose classes that will open well in your less intense sunlight.

As for disease resistance, I honestly believe you have to find out that information from people growing roses in your own climate. I explained the reason why I can't help you find the best disease resistant roses in response to Bonehead's query on the Rose Forum:

The thread "Suggestions for newbie ?" in Roses forum

(The post is to long to repeat here).

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 16, 2013 6:43 PM CST
Thanks, RB1!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 16, 2013 6:56 PM CST
Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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