Permaculture forum: Permaculture Convergence

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Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Sep 1, 2013 11:19 AM CST
Some news I just got from TwinEagles:

Inland Northwest Permaculture Convergence, Sept 13-15 Hayden Lake, Idaho

http://www.inlandnorthwestpermaculture.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8YSTx-GFo&feature=youtu.be
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Sep 1, 2013 4:16 PM CST

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It would be worth it to meet and hear Toby Hemenway speak.

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hazelnut
Sep 2, 2013 6:43 AM CST
I wonder if the issue of invasive species will be addressed. This has been an inflammatory issue on the net. Permaculturists have been called "unscientific" as well as "socialistic". As an archaeologist--a person who looks at cultures as adaptive systems of the past, I tend to side with Hemenway. Afterall what is a "native plant" anyway, what we really have are environments which include plant systems and human systems (and animal systems as well). And those from 500 A.D. are not the same as those from 2015 A.D. Invasive plants are 'pioneers' -- they have a job to do. Their job is to heal environmental damage, and then get out of the way to allow a new healthy ecosystem to develop. Some permaculture strategies would like to use invasives to help this process along.

One (of many) of many detractors from the permaculture perspective is Linda Chalker-Scott
https://sharepoint.cahnrs.wsu.edu/blogs/urbanhort/archive/20...

I think its an interesting debate.
[Last edited by hazelnut - Sep 2, 2013 6:49 AM (+)]
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hazelnut
Sep 2, 2013 7:53 AM CST

And here is one example of Toby Hemenway's response.

http://www.patternliteracy.com/644-saving-native-wildlife-wi...

TH. on the native plant argument:

http://www.patternliteracy.com/116-native-plants-restoring-t...
[Last edited by hazelnut - Sep 2, 2013 8:21 AM (+)]
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Sep 2, 2013 7:56 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Linda Chalker-Scott attacks Toby's credentials by pointing out he has "no formal training in biology past his bachelor’s degree", yet at the end she insults the reader by lecturing him that "arguments should contain content, not insults."

If this was a moderated debate I believe she would have lost points here.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Sep 2, 2013 8:20 AM CST
I think so. But I do agree that the matter is best 'discussed', not viewed as an opportunity to exchange insults.

And from the perspective of the university system, I should think a bachelor's degree, especially a B.S. would be ample qualification to read a scientific paper. Some of the best ideas in history came from people who were not indoctrinated in the status quo.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Sep 2, 2013 8:26 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

hazelnut said:Some of the best ideas in history came from people who were not indoctrinated in the status quo.


I agree It's one of the reasons I like Toby so much.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Sep 2, 2013 8:51 AM CST
Its interesting to me how simple ideas--such as native plants--native to what??? can become so inflammatory. We do get attached to old ideas. And the notion that things (plants, animals, humans) exist only in systems has been a hard one to swallow.

Ill be looking forward to what he has to say at Hayden Lake. Do you plant to go? As for me, I wish I could but life is sort of hectic right now.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Sep 2, 2013 10:27 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Not me, as much as I'd like to. I don't travel much.

Charter ATP Member
hazelnut
Sep 2, 2013 10:55 AM CST
Maybe there will be good reporting, so we all can know what happens.

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