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Nov 18, 2013 1:03 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Now that's what we need here! A garden club to come clean out DH's horse barn! Smiling
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Nov 18, 2013 2:09 PM CST
Name: Betty
MN zone 4b
Frogs and Toads Birds Hummingbirder Irises Lilies Peonies
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No way, No how, this senior is not cleaning a barn of any kind. I will just buy bagged composted cow manure. My neighbors would have a fit if I suddenly put uncomposted horse manure in my garden not to mention that I would have to smell it. I grew up on a farm so I know what it smells like.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime plant a garden!
Faith is the postage stamp on our prayers!
Betty MN Zone4 AHS member

Last edited by daylilydreams Nov 18, 2013 2:11 PM Icon for preview
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Nov 18, 2013 2:26 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
I am not interested in mucking out any barns myself either. Thumbs down
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Nov 18, 2013 2:42 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
I'm too old for that stuff, myself. I'd love to find volunteers!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Nov 18, 2013 5:05 PM CST
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Avid Green Pages Reviewer Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Lilies
We got horse manuer from a stable.They have a huge pileof it in the back of the barnyard.We just helped ourselves.No barn mucking for us.
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Nov 18, 2013 5:19 PM CST
Name: David Paul
(Zone 9b)
Cat Lover Hibiscus Seed Starter Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
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Nothing like a forage through the pastures, and we have a plenty around here... No mucking needed! (The pastures are so dry mostly and the piles are already baked to perfection by our hot Sun!)

COME and GET IT!!!!;.... the Cow and Horse-folk say! I'm all ears! Hilarious! I tip my hat to you.

Sometimes I find an interesting Native growing along the way in the pastures too...........

.................. Smiling I'll have to take pic's of my next adventure!
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Dec 18, 2014 10:39 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
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I think everyone will be interested in this video:

The Perfect Soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Dec 19, 2014 7:19 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b, and F (Zone 9b)
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
Excellent! Thumbs up

I agree.

My raised manure/hugel beds are still thriving; so much so that it's almost unbelievable. They were, and are a real eye-opener for me. Gardening here went from way too much back-breaking work, to just dump it in a pile and plant it. The only work involved now is tilling in the stall to mix and shred the components before transport. I'm pretty sure that a straight shovelful of urine-soaked media would be detrimental, but when it's all mixed up it does just fine. Smiling
Cottage Gardening

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Dec 19, 2014 1:14 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
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The video was a very good review and did seem to advocate (pure?) cow manure as a perfect soil. It was a very interesting idea to dry the manure fresh, then only crumble it a little. I wonder if that was their "secret" for reducing comapction.

(I don't recall them saying either "add lots of this to existing soil", or "grow right in 100% pure manure , without adding any mineral soil at all".

That surprises me: I would expect PURE manure to subside and compress, loosing its air spaces, then retain too much water, drain poorly and prevent sufficient aeration. Most soils would probably benefit greatly from adding enoguh composted manure to make it 20% to 70% of the soil, but it seems to me that the last 30% risks seriously decreasing drainage and aeration.

(Of course, that's only a concern if your soil leans in the "clay and silt" direction instead of the "sandy" direction.)

It especially surprised me that their "perfect soil" worked well in a small pot. Small containers are where I would think that aeration and drainage were most important. Maybe dry manure nuggets in small pots need a few weeks or months of softening before they subside and compress their air spaces out of existence.

Maybe the trick is to crumble it slightly while very dry, and then compress it slightly in the bed or in the field. That might make the manure crumbs or clods stable enough that air channels survive rain and compression. Or maybe the people making this video don't have much rain and don't need excellent drainage. Or maybe they have sandy, gravelly soil. And maybe they don't run tractors back and forth over their fields so their soil doesn't need to resist compaction.

Also, did that video say much about weed seeds? Maybe it is less of a problem if your cows graze only on your own fields, so that your manure only has weed seeds from weeds that are already common in your fields.

This paper makes the point that 60% of some weed seed varieties survive passing all the way through a cow. They need seven days at 130 F, or 30 days at 145 degrees F, or even more heat or time, to be killed during composting.

http://www.animalagteam.msu.ed...

P.S. My comments about weed seeds are 100% "do as I say, don't do as I do". I let live weed seeds get into my compost heap last year and saw dense, lush monocrops of weeds take over every bed like the Red Army descending on Hungary.

If I had had access to enough manure that the center of my piles got HOT, I might have squeaked through letting weed seedheads into the pile.
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Dec 19, 2014 3:18 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b, and F (Zone 9b)
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
Mine hasn't compacted to any detrimental degree. I'm using it to pot up seedlings, too. There are always a few weed seeds in any medium (in my experience anyway), but they pull so easily from the (deep, 18" or so) manure beds that you really can't use the word pull...it's more of a pluck. Smiling
Cottage Gardening

Newest Interest: Rock Gardens


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Dec 19, 2014 4:15 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Actual results from those who have grown in straight cow manure mean infinitely more than "worries" from someone who hasn't tried it.

You guys know, I only speculate.

I wish I could afford enough bagged manure to make my top 18" of heavy clay soil 25% manure!
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Dec 20, 2014 8:43 AM CST
Name: Elfrieda
Indian Harbour Beach, Florida (Zone 10a)
Annuals Foliage Fan Herbs Hibiscus Master Gardener: Florida Roses
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My concern, perhaps, would be using this straight in a veggie bed. What abut any meds that the horses are on ? Wouldn't this be in their poop ?
“I was just sittin’ here enjoyin’ the company. Plants got a lot to say, if you take the time to listen”
Eeyore
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Dec 20, 2014 8:55 AM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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I'm glad this thread came back up to the top, hadn't seen it before -- using the fresh horse manure certainly seems to go against the "conventional wisdom," just shows that it never hurts to challenge the things we've always believed ! Thumbs up

I'm going to describe all of this to DH and tell him I really, really want to get a cow or horse now... then I can "compromise" by giving in and not getting one, in exchange for just a teensy little addition to the garden so I have more room for all those Piggy Swap seeds Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Dec 20, 2014 10:29 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b, and F (Zone 9b)
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
orchidgal said:My concern, perhaps, would be using this straight in a veggie bed. What abut any meds that the horses are on ? Wouldn't this be in their poop ?


I've only used the straight horse manure in ornamental areas. I use (homemade) compost for the veggie areas, along with organic seaweed fertilizer ...just to be safe. Our animals are raised and maintained as naturally as possible so I really couldn't answer to the medications question, but I do feel safe in adding their manure to our compost piles.


Sandy, how about a mini? Once our older full-sized mare passes on I'm thinking of switching to those little cuties myself. I don't ride much anymore, so why not, right? Big Grin

Start out asking for a draft model, and "settle" for a mini and your garden addition. Hilarious!
Cottage Gardening

Newest Interest: Rock Gardens


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Dec 20, 2014 4:28 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Chelle, the mini horse is a great idea -- wouldn't be much bigger than the collies anyway ! Or maybe I could get a few sheep for the collies to herd around (then they could stop trying to herd the cats...) Hilarious!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Dec 21, 2014 11:01 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Hilarious! Hilarious!
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Dec 27, 2014 10:31 PM CST
Name: Cheryl
Eastern Ky
Truth should be everpresent.
Charter ATP Member Gardens in Buckets Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter
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I have grown in straight horse manure for years with great results. I have also used composted manure mixed with sawdust and rotted hay. All with great results. I have used green rabbit and goat manure also.

I have always heard that chicken manure had to be aged for a year before it could be used. I always assumed it was because of the ammonia. But I had different results with it this past season. I have had problems with my tomatoes since I moved here five years ago. I have tried everything. I even went hydroponic this past spring and the results were disappointing still. I had a pile of straight chicken poop where I had cleaned out a coop I had raised a roo in for meat. I found a very nice tomato plant growing in the pile. I knew what tomato I had fed the roo so I knew what the plant was. I was disappointed with my dying plants so I decided to make the most of the gift of a volunteer plant. I scooped up the whole pile in a shovel and buried it in a raised bed in my garden. I put a mater mote over it and hoped for best. I was totally sho ked and overjoyed at the results. It made a huge plant that was covered with tomatoes and it lasted until frost. So much for aging chicken manure.
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Dec 28, 2014 1:35 PM CST
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Roses
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Now I feel really silly for not taking advantage of an endless resource right out my door- I live in the middle of a cattle pasture! Dry cow patties are no big deal to pick up, light weight and not even smelly. I'll just grab a 5 gallon bucket when I go for my walks Smiling
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
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Dec 28, 2014 6:18 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b, and F (Zone 9b)
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
Me too, Neal. Never again will I just pile it up outdoors somewhere to decompose and grow weeds! In the past, by the time I dug it up to use it all I had left was nutrient-depleted organic matter ...and lots of weed roots and seeds. Rolling my eyes.
Now I'll use it somewhere immediately, or bag it up...and remember to be extremely grateful for it. Smiling
Cottage Gardening

Newest Interest: Rock Gardens


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Dec 28, 2014 6:37 PM CST
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Roses
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Same here, it was such a weedy mess I didn't want to use it. In some spots I'll just move the mulch aside, apply a layer of manure, and replace the mulch. In others I'll just toss on a layer of manure.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi

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