Daylilies forum: Seed germination

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Nov 24, 2013 8:19 PM CST
I have a quick question ...

Can seeds take longer than 3 weeks to germinate?

I've planted up all my seeds that I recently received in October. A few were seeds from the LA. There is one hybrid that I got from the auction that has still not sprouted. I planted 4 seeds of that cross. All other hybrid seeds planted in the same container and at the same time have all sprouted (3-2 weeks ago). Not these hybrid seeds. Is it typical that some culitvars take longer to sprout? The cross is "Bird Talk x Spacecoast Pattern Plus". Or could these possibly not sprout at all. If not, why? I've honestly never had seeds take longer than 3 weeks to sprout. If they don't sprout by that time, they never do.

Any information on seeds taking longer than 3 weeks to sprout would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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dormantsrule
Nov 24, 2013 8:29 PM CST
3 years ago I bought some seeds from Rich Howard and had given up on one cross. But their little green heads pushed up in 7-8 wks from planting so don't pitch them yet.
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
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beckygardener
Nov 24, 2013 8:41 PM CST
Thanks for that suggestion!

Wow! 7-8 weeks ... from Rich, no less! I am rather stunned. I just recently planted another LA win of more seeds I just got from Rich which I am rather excited about (Dragonfly Dawn x Dragonfly Dawn). At the same time, I planted quite a few seeds shared with me from Sandy. 3 of 4 of Rich's seeds are already sprouted before any others in the container. I am always amazed at how fast his sprout. They are always the first ones up! I know Sandy's will be sprouting any day now, too. I sure wish I knew Rich's secret to how he gets them to sprout so fast. I wonder if he soaks them in something before drying and chilling them?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Nov 24, 2013 8:55 PM CST
I have had some take 3 months but most are 3-7 days. I have read somewhere that one person had some that took 6 months before they germinated.
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Nov 24, 2013 9:07 PM CST
Thanks, Michele.

Can they get fungus and rot taking longer to sprout or are daylily seeds not as prone to that? I always water with Spring Water and a little bit of H2O2 (3% Hydrogen Peroxide).
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Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
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Gleni
Nov 24, 2013 9:27 PM CST
Yes, I never throw away till after 3 months. They can take that long.
(Zone 7a)
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dormantsrule
Nov 24, 2013 10:22 PM CST
Becky - Here's an article on preventing damping off. I was skeptical of the smashed garlic in water tip but it does work if used as soon as you see symptoms. Your seeds should will be fine if you don't keep soil soggy and provide lots of air circulation.

http://www.douggreensgarden.com/damping-off.html
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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Nov 24, 2013 11:30 PM CST
Becky, I have had seeds sprout after 3 months, but most
sprout sometime within a week. Sometimes when they don't show
their little green selves after two weeks, I will dig them up
to see what is going on. Some of the seeds end up planted too
deep, either by me or the water washes them down. If too
deep, they seem more prone to rot.

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Nov 25, 2013 12:09 AM CST
I have a few different crosses that have not germinated yet. Three so far to be exact. These were all planted at the same time. Everything else has germinated from that first group of seeds sowed at the same time. Here's the interesting thing (to me anyway) ...

The ones that haven't germinated yet are all DIPs, not TETs. Is this typical that DIP seeds don't germinate as fast or do they need something else to germinate? Cool or warm temps? Sunlight? What?

Why do some of you prefer TET vs. DIP daylilies? Noticing this difference in germination, now I am wondering about more of the differences? What else may be different? Larger blooms? Faster growing clumps?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Nov 25, 2013 5:10 AM CST
beckygardener said:
The ones that haven't germinated yet are all DIPs, not TETs. Is this typical that DIP seeds don't germinate as fast or do they need something else to germinate? Cool or warm temps? Sunlight? What?



I have not noticed a difference in the time it takes for TETs vs DIPs to germinate. We do both here and in both we have fast and slow sprouters. What makes a difference is that some seeds are dormant (this has NOTHING to do with the plant being a dormant or evergreen) and need cold stratification to germinate faster. Keep in mind that this is DIFFERENT than just putting them in the fridge dry. That is considered cold storage and not cold stratification. I don't know if it really helps to cold store them or not as some here just store them dry in a dark, cool place and never put in the fridge and they do fine. There have been many discussions here about it, one not too long ago somewhere here, so you may be able to search it in this forum or someone may remember which one it is. Anyway, some seeds need a cold, MOIST, period to germinate faster so people will store them in the fridge in a moist environment (seed soil, vermiculite, sand, peroxide water, coffee filters, damp paper towels, etc.) for a period of 3-8 weeks; I think 6 is about average. Then they are moved to room temperature and they are suppose to start germinating and then you can plant the germinated ones in cups, trays, or wherever.
An experiment was done and the article is in one of the AHS journals (I don't know which one off the top of my head) on different planting mediums and how long it took and which medium was better. What I got from the article was that even with the cold stratification some of the seeds still take up to a month to germinate. So for me it's just as easy to plant and wait than to fool with the storing in fridge for 6 weeks and such. I have a timeframe to plant my seeds so it would actually put me behind a whole season if I did this and waited for them all to germinate before planting plus I have wayyyy too many seeds to do this with. It's good if you have the time to do it (not planting until later anyway) and the space in the fridge (I sure don't).

I have had all of some crosses not germinate at all. The seeds looked fine and did not rot, but I assume they just weren't viable and would have never germinated no matter I did to them. They got dumped with the soil and remained there for a long time and still nothing so they just didn't want to become a plant. Some people put their seeds in something with a piece of sandpaper and shake around to scratch up the protective seed coating to help them germinate faster; I've never tried this so I don't know how well it works.
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[Last edited by tink3472 - Nov 25, 2013 5:35 AM (+)]
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Name: Ed Burton
NE Wisconsin
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EdBurton
Nov 25, 2013 5:24 AM CST
Some of the dormants can take months to germinate
Ed Burton

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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Nov 25, 2013 5:32 AM CST
beckygardener said:

Why do some of you prefer TET vs. DIP daylilies? Noticing this difference in germination, now I am wondering about more of the differences? What else may be different? Larger blooms? Faster growing clumps?



I don't prefer one over the other. It's just in TETs you have more character to the blooms so to speak. Dips are usually the plainer blooms with no teeth, no chicken fat (big ruffled edges for those not familiar with the term), or the other things that can go on with TETs. I think TETs have the capability of more intricate patterns IMHO. Usually TETs have thicker scapes and more substance to the blooms and yes I would say larger blooms. Some of the dips are pretty large but the thin scapes have a hard time staying upright with those large blooms. Fred (spunky1) likes working with DIP UFs and spiders because they are more flowy (is that a word Shrug! ), in other words they move better and curl more because the blooms are not as thick of a substance as TET UFs and spiders. DIPs have come along way but if you notice some of the older ones (even some newer ones), they are tissue thin and the bloom crumbles with the slightest touch or sprinkling of water; I'm not saying all but there are a lot. With the advancement in daylilies it's getting to the point that DIPs are more like TETs, but I don't think they will ever be able to do everything a TET does.

I don't think one grows faster clumps than the other either. Here I have some TETs that grow like a weed and then some that increase very slow. I also have DIPs that do the exact same thing.

There are experts here that probably can be more technical but this is just what I have observed here.
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Nov 25, 2013 7:54 AM CST
I agree that some seed take a lot longer than others before you see green, I have had ten or twelve seed from the same cross and none germinate. I could have that same cross in another tray and they all sprout. Weird things happen when you mess with Mother Nature.

A few years ago you would never have dreamed
to see a dip with a double edge.
LILLIAN KATHLEEN X LOOPY LOO
Thumb of 2013-11-25/spunky1/cfff4b
Dip UFs just do so much more than Tets.
Thumb of 2013-11-25/spunky1/0d0d65

Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Nov 25, 2013 8:01 AM CST
Those are very nice Thumbs up Thumbs up
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Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Nov 25, 2013 8:03 AM CST
Fred, I agree with hemlady!!
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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Nov 25, 2013 8:04 AM CST
LILLIAN KATHLEEN X LOOPY LOO Fred I gotta have a piece of this when you feel the urge to share a piece
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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Nov 25, 2013 4:22 PM CST
I agree Very, very nice, Fred.

I haven't seen a difference between the germination timeframe
of tets or dips either. Prefer working with tets for the reasons stated
by Michele.

So true that weird things happen when messing with mother nature.
Some clumps of either tets or dips may not grow well in one place, but by moving
them, the plants take off or vice versa. They seem to have a mind of
their own whether seedlings or mature plants. Go figure.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Nov 25, 2013 6:58 PM CST
Thanks so much everyone for your input about seed germination. I won't be dumping the potting mix for at least several months since reading everyone's advice.

And today some of the DIPs sprouted that had been sitting with no action prior. (Unfortunately ... not Bird Talk x Spacecoast Pattern Plus ... which is showing no germination as of yet.)
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden

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