Cactus and Tender Succulents forum: Christmas cactus, Schlumbergera x buckleyi, pics almost all wrong

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Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Dec 13, 2013 10:35 AM CST
Christmas Cactus (Schlumbergera buckleyi)

On the above page, every pic except 2 from Cahac are clearly S. truncata, not S. x buckleyi. In every other pic are one of 2 clues that clearly indicate S. truncata. There are either points on the leaves, and/or the flowers are leaning (not radially symmetrical.)

This page is the best I've seen for differentiating the holiday cacti. The line drawings are especially helpful. The differences are subtle, but once you see them, very obvious.

http://cactus.biology.dal.ca/paulS/christmas/christmas.html

It doesn't help that they are sold with labels that say 'holiday cacti,' 'Zygocactus,' or even 'Christmas cactus' regardless of species, but can these pics please be moved to the S. truncata page?

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Swayback
Dec 14, 2013 9:38 AM CST
There a function in the DB to do exactly this!

You can suggest where a pic should be moved to from the individual species pages, if that makes sense
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 17, 2013 1:55 PM CST
I see that, TY. In retrospect I probably should have put this in plant database forum. Not sure how that works when it's someone else's pic, maybe that's a common occurrence. I don't know, and don't want to break protocol if that's considered rude, or make anyone upset or confused looking for a pic later. It's an awkwardly busy time for many as well, who may not have time to get around to forums as much. I'm sure we'll both learn something here soon. Thanks!
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Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
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sheryl
Dec 19, 2013 1:31 PM CST
Quite common, and your request is reviewed by the DB moderators and moved, although I've mentioned it to a few people and they've done the request themselves.
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 19, 2013 3:43 PM CST
TY, Sheryl!
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☕👓 The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
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sheryl
Dec 19, 2013 5:42 PM CST
You bet! After all of the unfortunate mistakes over at DG, I think everyone wants this DB to be as correct as possible. Not easy, but a worthwhile goal.
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 20, 2013 10:15 AM CST
TY. I'm just left sad about all of the plants sold with wrong labels on purpose because emotionally, people would rather have a 'Christmas cactus' than a 'Thanksgiving cactus' and, as we all know, there's no right or wrong with common names. Just more common vs. less common. Making the leap to the correct botanical epithet (for that day anyway) is easily mistaken when led astray by the very source that's supposed to tell you in the first place. Why they can't just say "Schlumbergera" is a huge mystery.

The Wiki article on Schlumbergera has an excellent timeline of the taxonomy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlumbergera

Also discovered this cool article this morning, floral symmetry:
CC blooms are actinomorphic. TC blooms are zygomorphic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygomorphic
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☕👓 The only way to succeed is to try.
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Dec 20, 2013 10:36 AM CST
Way to turn a boring tech thread into something interesting!
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 20, 2013 11:38 AM CST
TY, Sway. I love the technical when it applies to "me." Otherwise, yawn! right?

I hope the info helps people recognize the subtle differences. I don't believe what I can't see as a difference, human nature. If I (or anyone else reading with something to contribute) can't provide sufficient info to help the differences to be recognized, disbelief would be perfectly rational and understandable.

Obviously before saying something like this, I looked at the pics as closely as my eyesight would allow, and firm enough in what I said and saw to publish it. Some of the close-up pics of blooms submitted to the entry in question can be assumed to go with a shot of what looks like the same plant by the same owner, where both leaves and bloom are visible, but that IS an assumption I made when looking at them in a couple cases, if my memory is correct after a few days. I'm sure my bi-focaled vista isn't the most perfect interpretation of all things visual. From the fact that there's 2 other people here discussing and not objecting to what I proposed, I'm assuming you both looked at the pics and see the same things I saw. Is that correct?

If anyone with a pic I've put in question has had a chance to happen on this discussion and remains certain their plant is S. x buckleyii, it would be perfectly reasonable to say something. It would be best if an explanation for that pic could be offered that helps the difference to be identified. Anyone walking away from this thinking "I still think it's a CC," or "I just don't see what they're talking about," is a fail, my fail, hope that doesn't happen.
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☕👓 The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
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sheryl
Dec 20, 2013 12:56 PM CST
Spoken like a true plant geek, Tiffany. Lovey dubby

I wouldn't worry too much about people's emotional reasons for purchase, though.... We love the stars at night, even if we have little to no understanding of how they came to be, why they were named what they were - it's all in the enjoyment of something beautiful, right?
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Dec 20, 2013 1:54 PM CST
sheryl said:Spoken like a true plant geek, Tiffany. Lovey dubby

I wouldn't worry too much about people's emotional reasons for purchase, though.... We love the stars at night, even if we have little to no understanding of how they came to be, why they were named what they were - it's all in the enjoyment of something beautiful, right?


I'm glad that a few other gardeners think this way!

A rose by any other name would small just as sweet!

It's the cliche I use!

Several of my real life plant friends say they have no room for NOID plants!
Poor guys, glad I don't have that hang up...

I do love to know the right names tho, I think it has to do with a mild superiority complex...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 20, 2013 2:53 PM CST
TY for the support! I question the emotion theory too, which comes from the growers/merchandisers I think. I also find it hard to believe that any shopper would check the label of a blooming or bud-covered plant they thought was pretty and complain or not buy it if it said TC specifically vs. CC or one of the ambiguous monikers because it wasn't the CC they thought they were looking for to begin with, or assumed it was when they saw the display. IOW, doubtful any particular label would negatively affect sales, just like you said, Sheryl.

People who know what they are anyway don't need any labels at all but might still look, on the off chance that fortune has smiled that day in the way of providing an exact cultivar name. I would only want to know for the novelty of it, repeatability, though like Sway said, some do collect names. As long as it looks different to me, I need it. If not, I don't, name notwithstanding. Since learning that lower temps at a sensitive time in development of buds can alter the flower colors, I'm looking forward to some surprises in coming years as I buy/trade plants. I don't have cultivar names for any of my TC's & I think it's necessary to mail-order if one wants such a thing. I haven't been in a real garden center/plants-only store, at least when holiday cacti were being sold, in too many years to have any idea about the possibility of finding them in such stores in person.

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☕👓 The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
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sheryl
Dec 20, 2013 10:19 PM CST
>smile<

It's a cwazy world, huh?
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Dec 21, 2013 1:51 AM CST
I'll tell you right now that the emotion factor is very real!

Ask any breeder that releases plants to the open market, they often must go thru larger plug companies and only profit from the royalties...

It more common for the big wigs to change the name than it is for them to stick with the breeders name, from what I see, they aim for cutesy names that will appeal to women...
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 21, 2013 12:27 PM CST
...such mysterious creatures, who will only tell you what they want.. if ASKED. LOL! Probably true. It's not possible for me to know the thoughts of a non-plant-o-phile woman.

WAAAAY OT alert, for the discussion purists:
Along those lines, I'm always complaining to DH that tools are ugly. Why is there no purple sandpaper or lawn mowers with flowers and padded handles - AND handles short enough for everyone to use? Hammers with pretty pink handles. Magenta wheel barrows. Pretty blue rakes. When I get oil for my car, I get the stuff in the purple package of course. There are millions of marketing opportunities currently missing for thousands of product categories. I couldn't find any replacement door locks, shifter knob, seat covers, or air plug caps for my tires I liked. Nothing matching my style or my pretty car. Don't think chicks don't want to pimp their ride too, they just don't want skulls and dice!
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Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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Dutchlady1
Dec 21, 2013 12:58 PM CST
Oh but there are!! @purpleinopp - I got the hammer at Ace Hardware.


Thumb of 2013-12-21/Dutchlady1/6562a1




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[Last edited by Dutchlady1 - Dec 21, 2013 12:59 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #528727 (16)
Name: Cliff Hughes
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Cahac
Dec 21, 2013 8:39 PM CST
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
Good One Hetty!! Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
cliff
SMILE AND HAVE A GREAT DAY
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
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sheryl
Dec 25, 2013 12:49 PM CST
Okay, the hammer I can do, but not the pink thang.

I agree that everything should be beautiful, and as a designer, I think we put up with a lot of unnecessary ugly - but I hate that marketers think I'm going to buy something just 'cause it's pink - for me, it is like my [female] use should not be taken too seriously - "men would *never* use a pink hammer, but we'll make this cutesy thing for the girls..." just my .02.

***Ok - Serious RANT ALERT - don't read if you aren't prepared to be disturbed!***

I also am really mad about the whole "buy pink for breast cancer" crap. Show your awareness. Right. As someone who had breast cancer, I am aghast that my disease has become a marketing tool. Some places do contribute minimal amounts to research (and a few, large,) but I think it really stretches some important ethical boundaries.

Sometimes I feel guilty that I had such an easy time of it - I lived through it and reached my five years Dec 10th (if you don't know, that's the "free-and-clear" time mark). My cancer was detected *incredibly* early - the biopsy to determine whether or not it was cancerous nearly removed it all and a lumpectomy got the rest. I had radiation, but no chemotherapy and my insurance covered it all. There are millions who lost breasts, lost spouses, lost their hair and their self-esteem, lived sick and died desperately poor, despite it all. It is horrible. And people buy little pink do-dads and think they did enough - or feel guilty that they don't do enough. Neither is right. Breast cancer should not be a profit generating marketing tool. It has no business there. I hate the comodification of something so human ....

Okay, end of rant. Nice person, me - ranting on Christmas and all .... Hope I didn't make anyone sad, but I do hope that folks might see the other side of the profit making machine. I find it very disturbing.

And please, this is not a call for sympathy - I had the best of care - from the medical community, my family and love from anyone I chose to tell. I couldn't ask for more. So many more have so much less and deserve so much more.

In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Dec 25, 2013 1:38 PM CST

Thumb of 2013-12-25/Dutchlady1/15b926
Well I have a Christmas Cactus now too - this was the gift I received at a party last night where we had drawn names. Isn't it great? Made of cedar so it will last. And the Christmas Cactus came with it! Hurray!
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Dec 26, 2013 9:52 AM CST
Awesome hanger, Hetty! Sounds like a fine party to me. Were all of the gifts plants?

I don't say "Thanksgiving cactus" when talking to people either. I would have said, "Your gift is a beautiful Christmas cactus."
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