growitall said:
You mean after germination, right? I find this to be a very tough one too, the problem being finding a place in this climate that is cool but consistently above freezing, and also with light. (Dark, I can manage easily in our cold room, which I use for stratifying. However, putting a fluorescent light setup in the cold room would cause the water lilies and tender roses that are overwintering in there to start growing, which would not be good.) An unheated solarium or porch might be the answer... if one had one. Which particular plant is it? Maybe winter sowing will provide enough of a cool growing period, one can hope.

Yes, after germination. The plant is Camassia cusickii. I actually have a few plants of this one already, so starting more from seeds might not be my best option.

chelle said:The plant is Camassia cusickii. I actually have a few plants of this one already, so starting more from seeds might not be my best option.

After that article on western American Camassia species in the NARGS bulletin this year, I'll bet there is a revived interest in the genus. I remember the author saying that camassia don't normally produce offsets, and the only sure way to increase plants is by seed. Sooooo........

I have some native Camassia quamash and find them to be self-seeding...

They do self seed like crazy. My C. leichtlinii bulbs multiply too; I have big clumps where I started with one bulb.

OK. looks like my newest interest is Alpines (rock garden) alongside hardy succulents (Sempervivums and the like).
I have never really tackled this section of fauna.
So I may have a few questions.
Is it OK to wintersow all alpine seeds?
On some sites it says "20 C which is probably 70 F" which to me is kinda warm.

Then... I would like to try some really cool alpines such as Saxifraga longifolia (just an example that came to my mind).
In lots of pictures I see this beautiful plant in full bloom but perched on top of a rock with just a shallow hole for dirt/roots, if at all!

Do such plants love it the hard way? If nicely planted in the landscape, or in a pot, with adequate kind of dirt - would they be doomed?

I'm thinking first growing plants and then arrange them nicely on rocks. OR they need to be small seedlings when placed in their final spot???

Just some questions... but I am sure more will follow in time

I think you mean "flora". :-)
It is generally okay to winter sow most seeds of plants that can be expected to be hardy in one's area, not just alpines. Edit: And as Chelle points out below, many other plants too.)
(If you found a site that says "all alpines" will germinate at 20 C, the info there is extremely poor! Such a generalization should not be made, because the majority of genera require other conditions, e.g. stratification.)
Saxifraga longifolia is a monocarpic plant, which makes it less than completely satisfying for most people to grow. Hybrids of it, however, are not monocarpic - most people prefer perennial plants.
Alpines live in harsh places often with thin rocky soils, cold and strong winds. Yes, many alpines prefer lean conditions - soil that is low in organics and composed of coarse-grained material for good drainage. (So in other words, not "soil" as most people think of it.) The plants need to spend all their lives in these conditions to retain proper forms (or to survive in many cases).
Most people would plant seedlings or purchased plants in the rock garden or trough and allow them to grow to maturity there.

I winter sowed my first batch of alpine/rock garden seeds yesterday.

For these I just used my regular method, since I had the materials on hand, but I did change the ratio. I used a roughly 60/40 mix of moist vermiculite and plain perlite. Hoping for the best, prepared for the worst.


Calin,

I think a great many plants whose seeds would typically sprout in warmer conditions would eventually do so, even when winter sown. Take, for example; tomatoes, squash and cucumbers that are tossed into the compost pile in fall and sprout with abandon when the weather warms. I'm even winter sowing many more fast growing annuals than I used to, and it's working out very well.

For perennials, especially, just plan on keeping your containers for a year or two longer ...just in case. I'm still pulling seedlings from containers winter sown three years ago.

fauna/flora is the first flub up I've seen you do, Calin. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that I am very impressed with you command of American English.

Wintersowing is the best way to please alpine seeds when you are not sure of what course to take. It will satisfy the germination requirements of the greatest number of kinds of seeds. For many years, it was the only way I started alpines from seed.

This pic taken in 2011, and a few pots were started indoors, though.

Gosh... I'm embarrassed. But let me tell you I was absent minded.
We have these words in Romanian, exactly as Flora and Fauna. So...
What was I thinking?

So... I will apply the wintersowing method to most alpines I have and will have in a while (I hope).

S. longifolia is a mono?
Wow... this disappoints me, but it sure is a cool one.
Will have to check what hybrids there are available!

Thank you all for the replies

Just realized you had a blog, Calin.
Added a few comments.

Thanks Rick!
:)
It's not really popular. But who knows...
Been kinda lazy when it comes to blogging ... I admit!

I am a bit confused...
As I am more and more interested in Alpines/Rock garden plants... I am sowing now about 30-40 types of seeds.
About 15 are Sempervivum, about 10 are Androsace, a few Saxifraga, Gentiana...

Problem is... I find mixes with a lot of grit (which for me, is sifted sand I can find around construction sites... and I keep the big parts).
This makes the mix VERY heavy!

I use potting mix I can find which is dark in color, mix it with some perlite and some "grit". But I am reluctant to use too much of it... makes the little pots really heavy and I can't imagine this is good.

Maybe I am wrong.

Mineral soils are what alpines like. They like rocks!

People always comment on how heavy my pots are. It keeps the wind (and miscellaneous animals) from knocking them over, too.
Just be sure there is still good drainage and air space. I usually mix in perlite (another kind of rock).

And to belabour the point a little...
One should not confuse weight per volume of the soil with its drainage capacity... it is actually the proportion of rock particles (e.g. sand, grit, and larger - which are heavy) to a much lower proportion of the lightweight components (humus, peat, manure) that make a soil fast-draining and lean, both desirable properties for growing many alpines. And how much the soil weighs is not a problem to the plants... though to the gardener, lifting a tray of 48 small alpine pots can be fairly heavy!

OK,... got it. But what about for... seeds?
Same thing applies?
I got a small pot with some geranium renardi (well, may not really be an alpine) but from two seedlings up yet, one is almost totally pushing itself out of the mix. Like it can't go deeper.
Same thing happened to some Lilium seeds.
Does the seed starting mix have to be let's say a bit fluffier?

Calin, it sounds like that mix is too dense. This is a term that means there is very little air space in the soil mix. It can occur in any mix if it has too many small particle size aggregates. Most often it happens in clay soils, but it can easily be a problem in pots of mineral soils, too, if it includes a lot of fine sand (small particle size). Small air spaces in the soil easily fill up with water and displace what little air there is, starving the soil (and plant roots) of much needed oxygen. So you can understand how overwatering can also produce this symptom. Lori is a geologist, and knows a lot about this stuff.

Calin, I would just sprinkle a bit more soil around the seedlings that are pushing up to stabilize them.

Thank you both.
Yes, Lori, usually that's what I do. Put some more soil around.
In this particular case, I actually lifted the seedling, made a small hole and placed it inside.
Hope it works.

Erigeron compositus Mt. Adams Dwarf - Seedlings emerged in 11 days at 65F. One month old. 2cm wide, tip to tip.


Scutellaria alpina - Seed planted 9 April 2013-no sprouting so put in fridge 10 June 2013, and forgot about it. Sprouted in fridge 15 Feb 2014.

Great photos Rick, and wonderful success.