Vegetables and Fruit forum: Indeterminate Short-Internode Tomatoes & Cherry tomatoes for Hydroponics indoor

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doctorman
Feb 10, 2014 6:11 PM CST
Hey guys,

New to the tomato world & need your help..

I am making a hydroponic system and I want to grow few Cherry tomatoes and few medium to large size tomatoes enough to feed a family of 4 with few extras.

They are indoor in a nice warm apartment with grow lights that will go probably for 15 hours/day all year round.
The space is limited so if I can get 2lb of Cherry tomatoes per week from one plant that is enough and few pounds of slicing tomato. I want ISI so it can go all year round without becoming too big.
I like the firmer round and nice tomatoes but I would appreciate it more if they don't get infected or sick.
If I am getting 2 plant of each (cherry and medium) I would rather have one yellow and one red variety.
Great taste and firmness is also a priority (don't like the tomatoes too watery)

These are all my concerns. Not sure if I am asking for too much.. sorry if I am.

Would appreciate your input .. perhaps if some one could provide a cutting or the seed that would be a plus.

Thank you.
Name: Claud
Water Valley, Ms (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member
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saltmarsh
Feb 14, 2014 2:45 PM CST
34 views and no responses. ok I'll try.

Welcome to All Things Plants doctorman. I don't want to discourage you, but I would suggest you do a little more research before you start supplying your family's tomato needs.

I don't know of any varieties which meet your requirements.

104 pounds of cherry tomatoes from a single plant may be unrealistic. At 1/2 oz. per cherry T. that would require about 64 tomatoes ripening per week or 6 to 16 clusters per week. Hand pollinated.

Best of luck. Claud

doctorman
Feb 14, 2014 3:51 PM CST
saltmarsh said:34 views and no responses. ok I'll try.

Welcome to All Things Plants doctorman. I don't want to discourage you, but I would suggest you do a little more research before you start supplying your family's tomato needs.

I don't know of any varieties which meet your requirements.

104 pounds of cherry tomatoes from a single plant may be unrealistic. At 1/2 oz. per cherry T. that would require about 64 tomatoes ripening per week or 6 to 16 clusters per week. Hand pollinated.

Best of luck. Claud



Thanks Claud .. well I was hoping to get there but did not do the calculations..
I got some seeds for sweet baby girl cherry tomatoes .. I read goo reviews on it.
I will start with 2-3 plants.. considering they wil get big and and my space is limited I think that would be the best use of space

How many pounds is the average per plant per year yield?
Also Ia m doing it indoor so the plants can have fruits all year round..
again I appreciate the reality check
per pound yield is the large size tomatoes or cherry tomatoes produce more per plant?

Name: Horseshoe Griffin
Efland, NC (Zone 7a)
And in the end...a happy beginning!
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
For our friend, Shoe. Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Permaculture Container Gardener
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Horseshoe
Feb 14, 2014 4:45 PM CST
Howdy, doctorman...and welcome to ATP!

You'd probably get a good amount of cherry tomatoes growing them indoors as long as you have the proper lighting system. Most varieties will produce like gangbusters once they start coming on. Of course I'm sure you know they'll need to be caged/supported in some way. As for medium slicers, you might want to try a bush type, Better Bush comes to mind, and it'll give you your request of "appreciate it more if they don't get infected or sick" since they are more forgiving than certain other varieties. Then again you'll be growing them inside so perhaps you won't have to deal with soil borne and wind-borne diseases anyway, eh?

As for your grow lights, figure on 40watts per square foot of growing area, preferably with a metal halide for early foliage growth, then switch over to a HPS for proper flowering and fruiting.

Lastly, no need to worry about hand pollination with tomatoes, they're self-pollinizing. You will want a fan blowing on them though not just to transfer pollen within the flower but also to help the stalks/stems become stronger so they can support the weight of the fruit.

Hope this helps.
Shoe (snowed in and longing for the smell of tomato plants growing!)


doctorman
Feb 15, 2014 6:32 PM CST
Horseshoe said:Howdy, doctorman...and welcome to ATP!

You'd probably get a good amount of cherry tomatoes growing them indoors as long as you have the proper lighting system. Most varieties will produce like gangbusters once they start coming on. Of course I'm sure you know they'll need to be caged/supported in some way. As for medium slicers, you might want to try a bush type, Better Bush comes to mind, and it'll give you your request of "appreciate it more if they don't get infected or sick" since they are more forgiving than certain other varieties. Then again you'll be growing them inside so perhaps you won't have to deal with soil borne and wind-borne diseases anyway, eh?

As for your grow lights, figure on 40watts per square foot of growing area, preferably with a metal halide for early foliage growth, then switch over to a HPS for proper flowering and fruiting.

Lastly, no need to worry about hand pollination with tomatoes, they're self-pollinizing. You will want a fan blowing on them though not just to transfer pollen within the flower but also to help the stalks/stems become stronger so they can support the weight of the fruit.

Hope this helps.
Shoe (snowed in and longing for the smell of tomato plants growing!)



Thank you very much Horseshoe..

I appreciate the comments from experienced tomato growers.

for lighting I stumbled up on the newest technology which I think should be the way to go for all indoor planting.. INDUCTION LIGHTS

these things last 8-10 years while expensive but worth it in long run. also they run as hot as a florescent light which is awesome since I do not want to much heat in my apartment.
Found 3 200W lights on ebay for 250$ so I am good with lighting..

I am very excited to try the sweet baby girl ISI cherry tomatoes

and the Better bush looks like a great choice as well since it is ISI and has short inter-nodes.

I am still deciding over the nutrients I need for Hydroponics
Probably this is what I am going to go with http://www.hydro-gardens.com/41838.htm Chem-Gro Tomato formula 4-18-38

do you have few Better bush seeds I can get from you?
Name: Horseshoe Griffin
Efland, NC (Zone 7a)
And in the end...a happy beginning!
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
For our friend, Shoe. Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Permaculture Container Gardener
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Horseshoe
Feb 18, 2014 1:12 PM CST
Congrats on your induction lights. I've never used them but assume they offer a wide spectrum of colors for best plant production.

As for Better Bush seeds, you'll be better off just picking up a seed packet locally then me providing them for you. I would imagine postage will cost more than a seed packet and Better Bush is fairly popular and easily available.

Best of luck to you with your tomato project!
Shoe
Name: David Reaves
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
Vegetable Grower Region: Texas Canning and food preservation Garden Ideas: Level 1
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david_reaves
Feb 18, 2014 6:37 PM CST
Another type you might try for a slicer is Husky Red dwarf. I'm trying it for the first time this year. The seedlings I've started so far are both husky and dwarf. I've been told that it has good flavor, so I'm going to try it in Earthbox self-watering containers. As Shoe said, Good luck!

David

doctorman
Feb 18, 2014 6:42 PM CST
david_reaves said:Another type you might try for a slicer is Husky Red dwarf. I'm trying it for the first time this year. The seedlings I've started so far are both husky and dwarf. I've been told that it has good flavor, so I'm going to try it in Earthbox self-watering containers. As Shoe said, Good luck!

David


Husky Red dwarf.. are those easy to find around? where did you get the seeds for that ?
Name: David Reaves
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
Vegetable Grower Region: Texas Canning and food preservation Garden Ideas: Level 1
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david_reaves
Feb 18, 2014 7:57 PM CST
I don't know if you can find easily in local hardware or grocery store seed racks. I ordered from Tomato Growers Supply. There are quite a few internet shops that show it available. TGS delivered very quickly.

David
Name: Horseshoe Griffin
Efland, NC (Zone 7a)
And in the end...a happy beginning!
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
For our friend, Shoe. Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Permaculture Container Gardener
Image
Horseshoe
Feb 18, 2014 9:09 PM CST
I think you'll like that one, David. I've grown New Big Dwarf for several years now and love the growth habit AND the tomatoes they produce. Husky Red Dwarf is very similar.

And yes, TGS has Husky Red Dwarf as well as New Big Dwarf. And I believe they carry Better Bush, too, in case you want to check them out, doctorman.

Shoe (who finally started tomato seeds today and yesterday....the season begins!)

doctorman
Feb 18, 2014 9:23 PM CST
Are these all Hybrids or are there any good heirlooms that I could save the seeds for next time?

I just learned what F1 Hybrid vs Heirloom is..
I did not care for hybrid before but I would rather have something that I could save the seeds and plant them later for the same results.

the other day I took some strawberries, green peppers and hot chili pepper seeds from fruits I got from the supermarket.. after reading about it I feel it might be a waste of my resources to grow those..
considering they might have been hybrids and I wont get the same results as what I bought in store?!
Name: Horseshoe Griffin
Efland, NC (Zone 7a)
And in the end...a happy beginning!
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
For our friend, Shoe. Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Permaculture Container Gardener
Image
Horseshoe
Feb 20, 2014 12:35 PM CST
New Big Dwarf is an OP type so yes, feel free to save seeds from it. All the "Husky" varieties (H Red Dwarf, H Red Cherry, Gold, etc) are hybrids. And yes, Better Bush is also a hybrid but is one of the 3 hybrid tomatoes I grow due to its growth habit, production, and taste. Keep in mind I went nearly 15 years w/out growing a single hybrid but two were recommended to me by a tomato guru some years ago and I tried them and have now stabilized one of them, growing it in my garden every year now; perhaps that might be something you might want to have fun with along the way also.

Keep in mind, if you want to delve deeper, that there are obviously some hybrids that are considered pseudo-hybrids and will come back true from saved seeds...but that's a whole 'nuther ball game/conversation.

As for peppers, normally you can expect grocery store peppers to be hybrids. However, peppers have also been known to come back true or close to true in some instances so who knows what you might end up with. If you're wanting to save seeds of peppers I'd recommend buying a packet of Chinese Giant and you'll be assured of stable seed stock (barring no cross-pollination, of course.)

Hope this helps!
Shoe (back to work sowing seeds!)


doctorman
Feb 20, 2014 12:44 PM CST
Horseshoe said:New Big Dwarf is an OP type so yes, feel free to save seeds from it. All the "Husky" varieties (H Red Dwarf, H Red Cherry, Gold, etc) are hybrids. And yes, Better Bush is also a hybrid but is one of the 3 hybrid tomatoes I grow due to its growth habit, production, and taste. Keep in mind I went nearly 15 years w/out growing a single hybrid but two were recommended to me by a tomato guru some years ago and I tried them and have now stabilized one of them, growing it in my garden every year now; perhaps that might be something you might want to have fun with along the way also.

Keep in mind, if you want to delve deeper, that there are obviously some hybrids that are considered pseudo-hybrids and will come back true from saved seeds...but that's a whole 'nuther ball game/conversation.

As for peppers, normally you can expect grocery store peppers to be hybrids. However, peppers have also been known to come back true or close to true in some instances so who knows what you might end up with. If you're wanting to save seeds of peppers I'd recommend buying a packet of Chinese Giant and you'll be assured of stable seed stock (barring no cross-pollination, of course.)

Hope this helps!
Shoe (back to work sowing seeds!)



Why aren't these old hybrids been stabilized by now.. is that because the seed sellers want to be able to sell them for better price?

Which Hybrid seed have you dehybridized?
Name: Horseshoe Griffin
Efland, NC (Zone 7a)
And in the end...a happy beginning!
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Garden Sages I sent a postcard to Randy! I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
For our friend, Shoe. Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Enjoys or suffers cold winters Birds Permaculture Container Gardener
Image
Horseshoe
Feb 21, 2014 12:19 PM CST
"Why aren't these old hybrids been stabilized by now.. is that because the seed sellers want to be able to sell them for better price?"

Who knows for sure, docman. Some will say it's for continued/repeat purchases/sales, which makes sense in a society that creates items with "planned obsolescence". Not only do the companies gain repeat sales but the hybrids seem to always cost more because they're touted as being better than non-hybrids in some way or another.

Then again, also keep in mind the early hybrids were created using only 2 parents. Modern-day hybrids can easily come from 8 and up to 16 different parents. Saving the seeds from those will certainly offer a multitude of recessive genes OR completely new never-before-seen traits. Most home gardeners/seed savers may not want to waste a whole growing season just to see what they end up with and commercial growers have no interest in saving seed.

"Which Hybrid seed have you dehybridized? "
My most favorite in the past 12 years is Supersonic. I don't think you could grow it in your house though as it is a stately plant and would be best suited for an airy environment and natural sunlight for best flavors.

Hope this helps,
Shoe (pummeled with loads of rain and now has tornado warnings here. Yikes)

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