Daylilies forum: Unregistered Daylilies with Names

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Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Apr 18, 2014 9:44 AM CST
Just looking for some insight on unregistered daylilies with names. What is the purpose of not registering a daylily, but giving it a name? Did the hybridizer decide that there was something about it that was not worthy of registering, but had already named it and it just stuck? Also wondering how many there are out there like the one I have.

I have "Intelligent Rosemary" that I got in a trade with a neighbor. It was a NOID to me until I was told it was Intelligent Rosemary, but it is not registered. And I just found a picture that I took of it and it's label back in 2009 at the local daylily farm that is no longer in business. The tag reads "Intelligent Rosemary"-not registered. Based on the info I have, I think I should give my NOID a tag with this name. It matches the description below to a T and it is a nice tall daylily for the back of my bed.

I also found a reference to it on a 2013 pdf from this site: http://daylilyfans.com/twigsgarden/.
"INTELLIGENT ROSEMARY - $10 - Unregistered. Long touted for its
good branching (many buds), it's agood plant. Named after Rosemary
Whitacre, a very special spider advocate. ("intelligent" is intentionally not
capitalized because it is unregistered, hence not a proper name.)"

Found another reference on a 2011 pdf from a place in PA:Clayton Burkey's Hickory Hill Gardens Daylilies and Singing Canaries.
“Intelligent Rosemary” – Miller,dor.dip.32”8”Dark red spidery with green throat, 6-way branching here, BC can go to 55……..10.00 - fall

Also pretty excited to see that it was used in one of Ned Robert's crosses.
Kachina Dancer (CAPULINA X (ROCOCO X CARLA CAT) [(WINDFRILLS ) X (CAPULINA X "Intelligent Rosemary")]

For now it will remain:
"Intelligent Rosemary"-not registered
Thumb of 2014-04-18/blue23rose/c90ce0 Thumb of 2014-04-18/blue23rose/55d03e

Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Apr 18, 2014 1:18 PM CST
I have a lot of unregistered daylilies in my garden that I have my own garden name for. It beats referring to it as #236-45l2, if you know what I mean. It's just much easier to remember a name. Some of my unregistered ones have qualities that I want to use in breeding, but does not necessarily have all of the qualities that I would want to register it. So, I use some of them as bridge plants in hybridizing. I don't have any noid's from anyone else, just my own.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Apr 18, 2014 1:42 PM CST
Thanks, Cindy. Definitely would prefer a garden name over a number too Smiling
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Apr 18, 2014 6:13 PM CST
blue23rose said:Found another reference on a 2011 pdf from a place in PA:Clayton Burkey's Hickory Hill Gardens Daylilies and Singing Canaries.
“Intelligent Rosemary” – Miller,dor.dip.32”8”Dark red spidery with green throat, 6-way branching here, BC can go to 55……..10.00 - fall


The reference above implies that it was hybridized by someone named Miller, which to me also implies that it was registered. Very strange! Shrug! It sure is pretty!
Natalie
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Apr 18, 2014 6:52 PM CST
I thought that reference was a little strange too. But there is no year on it. I like the branching and the bud count on it. I will have to see if I get 55 this year!
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Gerry Donahue
Pleasant Lake, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Garden Ideas: Master Level
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profesora
Apr 19, 2014 5:31 AM CST
Vickie, no one has given a reason why registration is preferred.
What does registration provide that a simple record keeping does not?

Registration does not always have all the information since the person registering does not always provide it or does not know it. For example, parentage, might be unknowing.

Therefore, the question still is "What does registration guarantee?

The answer is simple. It guarantees that the name is not already in use by another cultivar.
Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
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philljm
Apr 19, 2014 5:43 AM CST
I have some seedlings that maybe someday I will register. Meanwhile, I have named them. But when I talk about them in a forum or posting or real life, I state "garden named.....". I have purchased a few unregistered daylilies that were named, there are some hybridizers that will sell some like that. I do believe most will sell an unregistered daylily as a number, not a name though.

Even though I believe the cost for registering daylilies is very reasonable, especially when compared to the cost for registering the sheep & cattle I used to breed - it does add up.

I have no clue why others don't register their daylilies, I just know why I haven't. ~Jan
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
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Gleni
Apr 19, 2014 6:04 AM CST
I always assumed that my plants were registered when I started growing daylilies. I was quite surprised how many I had that were named but unregistered when I looked them up (after I became serious about my addiction). Some where actual homonyms (the same name as registered cultivars), which was incredibly confusing. To sort some of them out, I had to actually write to breeders because the plants were similar. Interestingly, some thought registration didn't make a difference with their customers and didn't care. And some were very bitter because they thought that the same (unregistered) name was being used to rip off them and their registered cultivar.
[Last edited by Gleni - Apr 19, 2014 6:30 AM (+)]
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Name: Gerry Donahue
Pleasant Lake, IN (Zone 5b)
Hostas Garden Ideas: Master Level
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profesora
Apr 19, 2014 6:25 AM CST
Some breeders have sold unregistered plants to growers who supply the big box stores.
Name: Joe Hawkins
Ontario , Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Daylilies Pollen collector
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spiderjoe
Apr 19, 2014 6:46 AM CST
This is from the spider robin
John David Miller also introduced into commerce two spider type daylilies that are red spider types and grown in several gardens. These were "Intelligent Rosemary" and "Carla Cat." He promised to register them "when he got money from sales." LOL He seemed forever to be waiting for the "big sale." LOL The "Big Sale" never arrived as they are unregistered. I have thought about registering them. I think John David Miller used RED RIBBONS as his main red spider breeder.
I want to include something in the spider book about John David Miller. He was an active spider robin participant and part of the early spider/ufo hybridizers one could call "The Spider/Ufo Revivalists." Ned Roberts
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
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blue23rose
Apr 19, 2014 6:48 AM CST
That makes sense, Gerry Thumbs up Having a name certainly lends a formalized order to all the tens of thousands of daylilies out there.

Jan, I never thought about the expense of registering. I have about 25 NOIDs and love them just as much as my named daylilies. I'm thinking about using your idea and giving them garden names. I would really like to put tags on them, but didn't want 25 name tags with NOID on them!

Glen, I'm learning a lot too. I didn't know that a named daylily being sold (aka garden name) could be unregistered. I am wondering... in the case of two daylilies with the same name, if the person who sold the unregistered named one just didn't know that there was a registered daylily with the same name? Could it have been purely accidental that the two daylilies looked similar? I can see how, after many changes of hands, one daylily could be mistaken for another.

I guess it's also possible that many years ago someone may have given a garden name to a daylily, sells it as such, and off it goes into the masses. Then a hybridizer comes along and registers one of their daylilies with the same name. Interesting (and confusing) scenario.



Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Apr 19, 2014 6:55 AM CST
Thanks Joe, for that information! Loved reading about the background of Intelligent Rosemary. I've been trying to think of some reason why it wouldn't have been good enough to register, because it is a lovely daylily. I hope you do register it! Smiling
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
Bearded Dragon young male
Region: Australia Annuals Canning and food preservation Herbs Tropicals Foliage Fan
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Gleni
Apr 19, 2014 7:48 AM CST
Vickie, I am sure that is what happens. But people can get nasty and suspicious over names. Some of the most awful fights in biology have been over names. Names have power - or people give them power. That is why there are legal systems like the AHS system, which is not in isolation but within the system of international codes.

The major advantage of a legal naming system is to avoid the confusion of homonymy, as nomenclaturists call it: multiple 'entities' with the same name. That is what the international codes are set up to do. They are all based on precedence: first name in, first served, as long as it is properly formed.

And, as always names exist, the cultivar doesn't have to. It is the same for natural biological species. For example, the Loch Ness Monster has a valid designated name, Nessiteras rhombopteryx Scott 1972, that is properly formed according to the zoological code of nomenclature.
Name: Joe Hawkins
Ontario , Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Daylilies Pollen collector
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spiderjoe
Apr 19, 2014 7:33 PM CST
The story that I posted was written by Ned Roberts. He was the one that wanted to register them not me.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
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blue23rose
Apr 19, 2014 9:03 PM CST
Oops, I misread that. Thanks for the clearing that up.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Ed Burton
NE Wisconsin
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EdBurton
Apr 19, 2014 9:11 PM CST
The thing about registration is the name that is registered is the official name of one cultivar, anything else with the same garden name is really an unknown no matter how nice.
So unless somebody has it reserved "Intelligent Rosemary" could probably be used for another plant.
And wouldn't that muddle up some of the long crosses that the unregistered Intelligent Rosemary is already named as parent

I have one that I really like a bunch from named Ryan Cobb, this was from a hybridzer named Webster, don't know his first name.
What happened here was that the name was preregistered, but Webster died before it could be registered, and it is being sold as Ryan Cobb with a bunch of misleading info on registration, it is not listed in the AHS

pic of Ryan Cobb NR
Thumb of 2014-04-20/EdBurton/9b6d42

Ed Burton

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Name: Catherine
IN (Zone 5b)
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Cat
Apr 19, 2014 9:12 PM CST
One thing I try to be sure to do when "shopping" for daylilies Sticking tongue out is to look them up on this site as well as the AHS site. I try to compare the sellers information, pics etc to both sites. ATP is nice because it "usually" has more than one pic so if the color varies any you seem to have a better chance of realizing that from the pics available. Where AHS only has one. I am so new to daylilies that I sure don't want to be paying for a name when it is not real. Confused Just saying...I would possibly buy "un-named" cultivars but I would want to know that before hand.
Cat
"Plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers." - Veronica A. Shoffstall
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
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Gleni
Apr 19, 2014 9:17 PM CST
Yes Cat. I always make myself look them up before buying. Especially at market stalls. Sometimes I think they just put them in pots with the old labels on.
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Apr 19, 2014 9:25 PM CST
Cat, I think a lot of us do the same thing when shopping for daylilies. I really love the garden pictures that people post here. It gives a much better view of the plant, and how it looks in other yards.

I have bought an unregistered daylily/seedling to use for hybridizing. I knew it was unregistered when I bought it. It has a garden name, which I use. The hybridizer hasn't registered it because of the cost, and because the name was taken. Well, from what I have found, the name isn't taken, and it's not expensive to register, so I'm going to offer to pay for it to be registered. The parents are unknown, so it isn't for that, but I just think it deserves a registered name. It's a beauty!
Natalie
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Apr 19, 2014 10:12 PM CST
Nice velvety texture on that daylily Ed. And muddled is the right word for it all. It can get very confusing. In the case of Kachina Dancer, I guess Intelligent Rosemary is not capitalized in the cross to signify it is unregistered. But that really would get confusing if someone used that name for a different daylily and registered it.

I too, love all the pictures here at ATP. Really get a good idea of all the variations of colors and edges one can have under different growing conditions.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown

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