Roses forum: I have a rose with a questionable ID

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Jun 15, 2014 6:47 PM CST
I am hoping someone here is able to help me. I bought this small rose plant in a co-op. It is supposed to be Purple Rain (Kordes), but there have not been any "purple" or mauve blooms on it. Only pink flowers. Maybe I am mistaken about the color of the flowers for this particular cultivar and it is indeed supposed to be pink. But why give it a name of "Purple" Rain?

The other thing I am noticing about this plant is it's growing habit is almost like a trailing or climbing rose. I have no idea what this is if it is not the Kordes rose plant. Any help IDing it or at least verifying whether or not it is Purple Rain would be very much appreciated! Thanks to anyone who can help me out here. It has very small blooms and the plant itself is smaller with small leaves almost like a miniature rose plant. The only thing that makes me think that it "could" be a Kordes rose is because the foliage is really nice. No diseases or fungus or even yellow leaf drop. But other than that, it sure has me wondering.

Thumb of 2014-06-16/beckygardener/fc7443

Thumb of 2014-06-16/beckygardener/39082c

Thumb of 2014-06-16/beckygardener/825a25

Thumb of 2014-06-16/beckygardener/e58e29
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[Last edited by beckygardener - Jun 15, 2014 6:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jun 15, 2014 7:24 PM CST

Moderator

I feel fairly certain that this is the Kordes Purple Rain. The habit's right: It's a short rose (under 2 feet tall), but a sprawling one, much wider than it is tall. The blooms look right too: small blooms with a rosette shape. I'd be tempted to grow it in a big hanging basket.

A lot of purple roses tend to be pinker or quickly fade to pink in the warmer zones, and you're certainly in one of those. My Ebb Tide was a nice dark purple in the shade. Now that i've moved it into the sun, the color isn't very exciting (or very purple) at all. Maybe your fall flush will be closer to purple.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jun 15, 2014 7:57 PM CST
Zuzu - Thank you for replying. I keep looking for photos of it online. Some show pink, some show a nice purple-mauve color. I kept leaning toward it being Purple Rain, but the rose color just kept confusing me. I appreciate your opinion very much!

You mentioned you grew purple blooming Ebb Tide in the shade. I have an old birdbath with a nice sized basin that I was actually thinking of planting Purple Rain in. The birdbath is in partial shade. It gets some sun during the day, but not as much as where I have Purple Rain growing currently (all day sun). Do you think it would grow ok in partial sun? Perhaps maybe produce mauve blooms in partial shade?

I know you grow a number of Kordes roses. May I ask which one that you own is your favorite Kordes? I have the Golden Fairy Tale too. Another lovely rose bush that is just starting to take off. All mine are grown in containers because of the root knot nematodes in my soil.

I don't have that many roses, but I genuinely love roses. My current favorite that I own is Cinco de Mayo (which is not a Kordes rose). It seems to bloom non-stop and the blooms are so beautiful. But unfortunately, the foliage is certainly not disease and fungus resistant so it doesn't look as nice overall as either of my 2 Kordes roses.

I also heard that more fragrant Kordes roses were going to be introduced into the USA. The lack of a fragrance is the one thing that I find disappointing about my Kordes roses. My favorite scented rose in my garden is a Don Juan climber. But it is slowly being destroyed by the nematode issue. (I probably should try to take some cuttings of it so I don't lose it completely.) Do you know anything about the new fragrant Kordes roses coming to the USA?

Thanks for your help, Zuzu!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jun 15, 2014 8:52 PM CST

Moderator

Yes, I think you could safely grow Purple Rain in the birdbath. In your zone, just as in mine, the shade is bright shade and is a good place to grow roses. Some of my happiest roses get only a couple of hours of sun each day.

According to our database search engine, I have 101 Kordes roses. (Actually, I have more because I have duplicates of some of my favorites.) Most of my Kordes roses are fragrant, so I don't think that's anything new. If I have to pick favorites, I'd pick Aloha, Cafe, Caramel Fairy Tale, Die Welt, Fairest Cape, Gebrueder Grimm, Pompon Flower Circus, Pomponella, and South Africa. I can't narrow it down any more than that. Three of those are fairy tale roses, so that's clearly a series that meets my aesthetic requirements. Smiling

Cinco de Mayo is remarkably disease resistant in my garden, but probably because we have such low humidity here.

As for those awful nematodes, if I lived in Florida I would invest in roses grafted onto fortuniana rootstock. The nematodes don't go near fortuniana, so you can plant those roses in the ground and enjoy them forever. Many local nurseries in Florida carry fortuniana-grafted roses from Nelsons'. Here's a link to some retailers of Nelsons' Roses.

http://www.nelsonsfloridaroses.com/buying.html

Cool Roses in Florida also carries fortuniana-grafted roses, and I think they'll mail them to you.

http://www.coolroses.com/products/grafted%20category.htm

K&M is another mail-order nursery that offers roses grafted onto fortuniana. I've bought roses from them. They're huge and fabulous and worth every cent.

http://www.kandmroses.com/

I see Don Juan on their list under climbers:

http://www.kandmroses.com/K&M%20Rose%20List,%202014.pdf
[Last edited by zuzu - Jun 16, 2014 12:47 AM (+)]
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jun 16, 2014 5:07 PM CST
Zuzu - Thank you for all that information!!!!

I have tried growing fortuniana roses in the ground here. They lasted 2 years before dying. Not sure what killed them. I basically grew them just like I've been growing roses all along. I assumed the nematodes or something else got them. (I know they are supposed to be nematode resistant.) I have been growing roses in pots for at least 5 years now and haven't lost any. 4 roses I have that are growing in pots are climbing roses. LOL! Go figure! The only one growing in the ground currently is Don Juan. It has lasted the longest in the ground, but has never looked very good. I know if it was in a container, it would look a lot better. I may try 1 fortuniana root stock rose again ... but the success rate in the containers is so good and I can move the containers around too, that I never really worried about it and just continued to grow all my roses in containers. The roses in containers just never get real huge like they would if they were grown in the ground. But that is ok with me. I don't need huge roses.

I appreciate all the links of sellers, too! There is a limited selection locally. Though I did get Cinco de Mayo locally and I love that rose and the fragrance.

My Golden Fairy Tale (Kordes) does not have a fragrance but is supposed to. It also gets pink edges as the blooms age. Do you have this rose cultivar? If so, does yours show some pink like that and do you notice any scent? I haven't read anything about that color change, so I hope the rose plant was marked correctly and is indeed "Golden". It does have nice foliage, but is much slower growing than the Purple Rain rose.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jun 16, 2014 5:08 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Jun 16, 2014 6:16 PM CST

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I don't have Golden Fairy Tale, but it's described in most sources as a yellow blend -- yellow with red edges. Those edges look pink, though, in most of the photos I've seen.

It's possible, of course, that yours was mislabeled, especially if you can't detect any fragrance. Did you get it from Chamblee? I've noticed lots of complaints about mislabeled roses from Chamblee's Nursery in the last year or two.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jun 16, 2014 7:01 PM CST
Zuzu - Yes! It came from Chamblee's. Should I take a photo of it tomorrow and post it for you to see?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jun 16, 2014 7:13 PM CST

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Yes! Do it!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jun 18, 2014 6:01 PM CST
Zuzu - Here is two photos of Golden Fairy Tale (Kordes). Or at least I HOPE it is the correct cultivar:

Thumb of 2014-06-18/beckygardener/a2b216

Thumb of 2014-06-19/beckygardener/e321b7

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
Jun 18, 2014 7:21 PM CST
I am no authority, but some of the pictures on HMF look like your rose - and some do not.
Porkpal
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jun 18, 2014 7:28 PM CST

Moderator

I saw that too, Porkpal.

Was the bloom a lot yellower before it faded, Becky? It should be yellow, with a darker yellow center.

Look at this picture on HMF. There's a faded rose in the cluster that looks just like your rose.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.248647
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jun 18, 2014 8:50 PM CST
I'll take a photo of the early bloom next time it has a bud ready to open. I do believe it is a darker yellow that fades and then produces pink splotches and edges.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 13, 2014 7:43 AM CST
Zuzu - Finally getting more buds and this bloom:

Golden Fairy Tale (Kordes)?

Thumb of 2014-07-13/beckygardener/0f9719

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jul 13, 2014 2:34 PM CST

Moderator

That's more like it, Becky. I guess we can trust Chamblee's practices. That's a very pretty rose!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 13, 2014 3:58 PM CST
Zuzu - Thank you! And it does have a nice scent this time! Lovey dubby Thumbs up Thank You!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden

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