Vegetables and Fruit forum: Extra Hot peppers

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Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
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cycadjungle
Jul 30, 2014 5:59 AM CST
Here is the first part on really hot peppers. Just to start, in the last 8 years we have seen a lot of changes with super hot peppers and the world record heat. The Bhut Jolokia, or ghost pepper was twice the previous record holder, which was just amazing to everyone. The ghost came in at over 1 million scoville heat units. I think it held the did for a solid 5 years. Then came some people in England that came up with the "Naga Viper" at 1.3 M SHUs, but nothing was released in the US until there was already a new official record holder, the Trinidad Butch T Scorpion at 1,463,700 SHUs. About two years ago the hot pepper institute performed an experiment and got the Moruga scorpion to reach 2,009,000. It never made the book though. The new official record holder is now the Carolina Reaper at around 2.2 M. I am growing a pepper that is hotter, and others are also working on the next record holder, but for now, it's the CR. This will get us started, more to come. Tom


Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Jul 30, 2014 7:00 AM CST
It seems to me like if they get much hotter, they will self distruct via spontaneous combustion. Rolling on the floor laughing
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Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
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herbie43
Jul 30, 2014 7:10 AM CST
i had no luck growing my Trinidad Scorpion butch T this year.

I get all my hot pepper seeds from [url=www.thehippyseedcompany.com]www.thehippyseedcompany.com[/url]
visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
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Xeriscape Pollen collector Seller of Garden Stuff Region: Florida Seed Starter Container Gardener
cycadjungle
Jul 30, 2014 12:23 PM CST
Well, those are the people that named the Butch t pepper, but ordering from Australia can sometimes be a problem. Since you buy from them already, I'm sure you already have your general import export licence because otherwise your shipments would be coming in illegally. If not, and you say you have never had a problem before, you are just lucky your shipments haven't been intercepted and burned. Butch Taylor has been improving the pepper that was named after him and he lives in Mississippi.
So I guess this should be in a cultivation forum, but what problems did you have with your plants? Tom
Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
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herbie43
Jul 30, 2014 5:15 PM CST
I find that hard to believe. Me and a thousand other people go to this website all the time to purchase seeds.

I started 14 seeds and not one germinated. I have been starting plants from seeds for over 25 years and I never had trouble. I started with the bhut jolokia a few years ago without trouble but the Butch T's were different story altogether.

I've never been able to find a nursery that sells those extremely hot peppers but a while ago I was in our local supermarket and they had about 50 what they called ghost peppers so I bought a bunch to make my pepper sauce.

visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower Cat Lover Cactus and Succulents Bromeliad
Xeriscape Pollen collector Seller of Garden Stuff Region: Florida Seed Starter Container Gardener
cycadjungle
Jul 30, 2014 6:43 PM CST
I know what your saying about buying the seeds. If your interested, do some searches on the internet on this subject. You might find information about the commercial import permit, then the free regular person permit and then there are small number layman permits. Until you find out how many real rules there are out there. The more you find out how much vendors on eBay are breaking the USDA laws, and all over the place.
I think the Moruga Scorpion is a much better pepper. I have some seeds from isolated plants that were hand pollinated. If you want, I can send a few over for free if you like. I store my seeds in a vacuum sealed mason jar in a dark, cool spot in the house, so they should be good. Tom
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Jul 30, 2014 7:52 PM CST
The permits to import are free from the USDA. I had to get one to import irises from Australia last year. The permit lasts for 3 years. I imported from France this year. Just download the form or fill it out on line. Really was pretty simple.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
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Weedwhacker
Jul 30, 2014 8:16 PM CST
Tom, aren't the shipping costs prohibitive? (I have no idea, since I've never tried ordering seeds or plants from outside the US, domestic mailing charges are ridiculous in my opinion!) Confused
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Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
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herbie43
Jul 30, 2014 8:26 PM CST
Tom - thanks for the offer but i don't start seeds anymore because I am getting to old for that stuff and I simply do not have the room to do it.

have you checked out that website I gave you??

visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower Cat Lover Cactus and Succulents Bromeliad
Xeriscape Pollen collector Seller of Garden Stuff Region: Florida Seed Starter Container Gardener
cycadjungle
Jul 30, 2014 8:31 PM CST
I forgot to add, depending on the port of entry, packages are radiated before they get to you. This is really good at killing seeds of many kinds. Anyone with seeds coming in through New York should worry more than ones that comes into San Fransisco. Down in Miami they have a place called "the smokehouse" for any packages they don't permits for. Having the packages coming in with the permit number and it goes through without damage because they know what it is. This kind of thing got bad after 911 because they are worried about all kinds of things now a days. The rule about the permit has been around for the 28 years I have had to worry about it, but only recently did they announce they were going to start enforcing it.
On the website, I just looked at it again, but had first seen it a few years ago when I first started growing these super hots. They do have an impressive site. Mine is nothing compared to a set up like that. One thing that is good to know, when someone has that many types of seeds, are they brokering them from many other people, or are they growing most of them locally. Then, how close are they being grown together and what is the chance with genetic contamination.
On shipping costs of seeds. It really isn't all that bad. I just sent some cycad seeds to Australia and it was only $8. It's weight that kills you. If i got in 100 good sized Dioon seeds from my source in Germany, it might cost $95.
[Last edited by cycadjungle - Jul 30, 2014 8:56 PM (+)]
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Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
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herbie43
Jul 30, 2014 8:46 PM CST
I just copied this from the hippy seed company web site

The World Hottest Chilli


Guinness World Record

The 19th of November 2013 we have a new World Hottest Chilli: The Carolina Reaper SHU 1.569.300 SHU. The former Recorder Holder was the Butch T Scorpion SHU 1.463.700 – we had the record for the world hottest chilli together with The Chilli Factory and Mark Peacock from 1st of March 2011 till November 2013. Congratulation with the new Record to Ed from USA. Try our Guinness World Record Pack if you want to grow some of the record holders.

The story about our hottest chilli in the World

world hottest chilli Here is the Story about, how Neil found the former world hottest chilli. Our mate, Butch Taylor, sent us the seeds and we grew them. Neil started years ago testing chillies on YouTube, because he is dyslexic. So instead of trying to write about the chillies, he thought it was a good idea describing and showing the chilli in a video. Now we have over 300 videos on YouTube. Back to the story about the world hottest chilli – it was time to test the new Butch T Scorpion. The 21st of February 2009 he made his first chilli test of the Butch T. Neil lost his sense of taste for days, his tongue felt swollen and had to go to bed after the test. For year Neil said the Butch T was hotter than the former Guinness Record Holder, but no one listened. In March 2011 we got the Guinness Record for the world hottest chilli together with Mark Peacock and Marcel De Wit.
visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
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Weedwhacker
Jul 30, 2014 9:41 PM CST
Blinking
Whew, those things should be regulated as Hazmat!
"Blessed is he who has learned to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."
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Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
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herbie43
Jul 31, 2014 5:11 AM CST
I sent them an e-mail inquiring if I need import permits to buy their seeds. waiting for a reply
visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
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RickCorey
Jul 31, 2014 4:24 PM CST
I don't recall where I originally found these numbers, but it looks like the Moruga scorpion chilli ties civilian pepper spray for capsiacin content.

15 Million SHU Pure Capsaicin
5.3 M SHU Police-Grade Pepper Spray
2 M SHU Typical Civilian Pepper Spray

And the Carolina Reaper beats civilian pepper spray by 10%.

(summarizing parts of the first post)

2.2 M SHU Carolina Reaper at around 2.2 M
2 M SHU Moruga scorpion (the hot pepper institute)
1.46 M SHU Trinidad Butch T Scorpion
1.3 M SHU "Naga Viper" (UK)
> 1 M SHU Bhut Jolokia, or ghost pepper

Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
Charter ATP Member
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herbie43
Jul 31, 2014 5:33 PM CST
I received this from the Hippy seed Company

Hey Franklin,

If you are going to import a lot of seeds for commercial use, I think some countries would have such a rule. But we have customers all over the world and we don't have any problems sending them.
visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped beta test the first seed swap Region: United States of America Region: Michigan
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Weedwhacker
Jul 31, 2014 6:03 PM CST
OMG -- if the "police pepper spray" is hotter than, say, a ghost pepper, then I SURRENDER! Blinking
"Blessed is he who has learned to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."
- John Powell / Cubits.org - A Universe of Communities
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Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Jul 31, 2014 7:37 PM CST
Yup, five times hotter.

And they now have large economy size spray cans for blasting 30% Capsaicin right into the eyeballs of non-violent protestors.

I guess that's better than permanent brain damage / severe concussions from being clobbered over the head with a club. But this is not a case of "better living through chemistry".
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped beta test the first seed swap Region: United States of America Region: Michigan
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Birds Butterflies Dog Lover Cat Lover
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Weedwhacker
Jul 31, 2014 7:58 PM CST
RickCorey said:Yup, five times hotter.

I guess that's better than permanent brain damage / severe concussions from being clobbered over the head with a club. But this is not a case of "better living through chemistry".


And, having rubbed my eye after cutting up even jalapenos (is there anyone who hasn't??), I cannot even imagine! Blinking

"Blessed is he who has learned to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."
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Lakeland Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower Cat Lover Cactus and Succulents Bromeliad
Xeriscape Pollen collector Seller of Garden Stuff Region: Florida Seed Starter Container Gardener
cycadjungle
Jul 31, 2014 9:05 PM CST
I see everyone is up on the recent record holders, but I thought I would talk about what might be hotter in the future.
Part of what I do is to be growing the next world record holder before it actually becomes the record holder. So here is what is out there and sometimes behind the scenes peppers that aren't being offered yet. There is a guy in Finland with a really nice greenhouse setup that came out with what he called the Fatalii Gourmet Jigsaw. He was saying it would be hotter than the record holder, but that was when the Moruga was the hottest. I finally got some really expensive seeds in (I have my import permit) and I was disappointed with what grew out. The taste was bland and about the same as a Moruga. Even red brain strains taste 25% hotter. There is a really nice lady in Tennessee who grows peppers and sells seeds that has a pepper called the 7 pod Lava. It looks like a Moruga with holes all in it. It's like a golf ball with little capsaicin pockets the entire exterior. Since the proper way to make a stable hybrid is the grow it out for at least 6 generations, choosing the best plants each time to breed with, she is not releasing this yet to the public. I was lucky to be gifted a few of these, and they WERE hot, but it was about as hot as a red brain strain, but it too had an average taste. Chances are this pepper will be improved before it gets released, so something to be looking for in another year or two. It really looks nasty, so it has good possibilities.
A 7 pod Douglah is the hottest chocolate pepper I have tried. It also has a very unique smoky, nutty taste right before the burn goes right down to your throat and feels like a caldron of lava spinning in your throat for a good 10 minutes. This has been crossed with the Carolina Reaper. This would need several generations to stabilize, but the people who have tried this first generation of peppers say they are brutal, and for sure hotter than the reaper. The taste is not supposed to be pleasant.
The next one is more rumor and no fact that I can quote, but even before the reaper was given it's name, it had a hybrid number determination. There are others in that same group with different hybrid numbers. Even before this pepper came out to the public, the people making them had told people there was another one that was much hotter. People have all kinds of opinions about these peppers and it is all speculative, but they think that the people making all this money on seeds will not let these come out until demand for the reapers calms down. There was a lot of controversy on how the reaper was marketed at first and that the first seeds had a terrible amount of genetic diversity. Some people said they wouldn't even buy any reaper seeds and just wait for this other pepper that had already been described as hotter. The reaper came about in the first place for use in cancer research, so we have been told that this hotter one is being used for this purpose and not being released to the general public.
There are others out there that have possibilities, but these are the most likely suspects for the next record holder.
It has been said that why would anyone want anything hotter than what is already out there, but I think this is where making powder comes in. When making powder you lose the fruity taste of the pepper, but what helps some people, you also lose the searing affect that just tears up your insides. When you use powder, you get the taste, and the heat, but the heat goes away quickly and 10 minutes later you don't even know you ate something hot. And you just sprinkle what you want on top of food you want to spice up. If the pepper is hotter, just use less. The key is find a hot pepper that tastes good and don't just pick the pepper because it is the hottest. Tom
Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
Charter ATP Member
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herbie43
Aug 1, 2014 5:28 AM CST
Tom - I am fascinated with your knowledge of hot peppers. Thanks
visit [url=www.cookfromtheheart.com]www.cookfromtheheart.com[/url]
frank

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