I found this today regarding Sedum 'Purple Emperor' on MoBot:
'Upright sedums were at one point separated into the genus Hylotelephium, but are now generally included back in the genus Sedum.'

Just wondering what the correct current usage is?

thanks!

It depends on which authority you choose to accept. For the sake of consistency, we generally follow the Catalog of Life which lists Hylotelephium as the accepted name.

For what it's worth, a quick glance at the Plant Finder on the MOBOT site still seems to show these plants mostly listed as Hylotelephium there as well?

thanks, Kent. Interesting! I had only read the entry for Sedum 'Purple Emperor', but you're right there are a lot that are Hylotelephium as well!

Thanks for the link to Encyclopedia of Life. I've bookmarked it now.

I don't think people have time to change things every time some botanist looks through a microscope?

The people who care about such things certainly have the time, or will make it. Fortunately for the people who don't, which I'd guess is the vast majority, the way Dave set up the database here it really doesn't matter when the names change. For example, if I prefer that time had stopped in the 1980's and Sky Blue Aster was still called Aster azureus instead of the unpronounceable name of Symphyotrichum oolentangiense , I'll have no trouble finding it in the database by typing Aster azureus into the search engine. Unless you are into the science of taxonomy, it's of almost no consequence which name is on top or has "Accepted" behind it.

TYVM! I totally understand that, I get how it works, and my comment was to the universe, not any particular person.

My issue is with changing the names at all. It's not a singular, universal decision, and the last people to know are those who have and love these plants, know them like the back of their hand, and then one day are told they don't know its' name. Well how many names does one plant need? Don't they all already have a botanical epithet? Yes, and everybody knew it, took a note of it.

In our current time, we're told it's because of genetic discoveries. What will be the next reason to change most of the plant names? Where/when will it end? How are people supposed to use plant names, (or uniquely indicate any specific plant) if the one thing needed from the name - stable uniqueness - is flexible? There are heated arguments out there about names, in less civilized venues than this where such things occur, and folks needlessly trying to decide the difference between their Sedum and their buddy's Hylotelephium. "Depends on when it was bought" as the answer to that question is utter nonsense. We're all wasting time on this very discussion because of unnecessarily fabricated confusion.

Kent--I agree that's a great solution of Dave's to have a list of 'synonym' names that will allow people to find a plant regardless of whether its name has changed or not.

purpleinopp said: Where/when will it end?

It will never end. In science, the answer to any question is always subject to change, contingent on better information.

I always amazed at the angst that botanical names sometimes cause. I've said this before, but perhaps it bears repeating. Scientific names are just made up words, derived mostly from a dead language, describing a concept (the species) that doesn't actually exist.

Taxonomy is really just a mechanism to help us make sense out of a bewilderingly complex world. One of the reasons it works is because the researchers involved have all agreed to play by the same rules. The ability to change names is a critical aspect of those rules. Whether they understand it or not, if the 'don't change anything' people had their way, the end result would be chaos (which is what we had before the development of taxonomic systems).

KentPfeiffer said:
Taxonomy is really just a mechanism to help us make sense out of a bewilderingly complex world. One of the reasons it works is because the researchers involved have all agreed to play by the same rules. The ability to change names is a critical aspect of those rules. Whether they understand it or not, if the 'don't change anything' people had their way, the end result would be chaos (which is what we had before the development of taxonomic systems).

Totally agree, Kent. Sorry if for some reason I seemed to be one of those cantankerous 'don't change anything' people. Just trying to figure things out and keep track of things, is all.

I'm happy that our database includes all the old and new names so I really don't have to stew about it that much. I'm vaguely aware that my tall sedums are some sort of telephone-pole thing now, but that's about as much thought I give to it. I will likely call them sedums to the grave, not to be cantankerous but because that is what my contemporaries know them as.

And...I had to do a web search to figure out what TYVM meant (ha ha).

Bonehead said: I'm vaguely aware that my tall sedums are some sort of telephone-pole thing now, but that's about as much thought I give to it. I will likely call them sedums to the grave, not to be cantankerous but because that is what my contemporaries know them as.

I agree. However I am finding myself starting to remember the telephone-pole names. Didn't think that would ever happen.