Plant Database forum: Sedum/Hylotelephium

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Name: Catmint/Robin
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Catmint20906
Sep 20, 2014 6:03 PM CST
I found this today regarding Sedum 'Purple Emperor' on MoBot:
'Upright sedums were at one point separated into the genus Hylotelephium, but are now generally included back in the genus Sedum.'

Just wondering what the correct current usage is?

thanks!
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yardsโ€
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Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Sep 20, 2014 6:19 PM CST

Plants Admin

It depends on which authority you choose to accept. For the sake of consistency, we generally follow the Catalog of Life which lists Hylotelephium as the accepted name.

For what it's worth, a quick glance at the Plant Finder on the MOBOT site still seems to show these plants mostly listed as Hylotelephium there as well?
[Last edited by KentPfeiffer - Sep 20, 2014 7:48 PM (+)]
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Name: Catmint/Robin
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Catmint20906
Sep 20, 2014 7:09 PM CST
thanks, Kent. Interesting! I had only read the entry for Sedum 'Purple Emperor', but you're right there are a lot that are Hylotelephium as well! Smiling

Thanks for the link to Encyclopedia of Life. I've bookmarked it now.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yardsโ€
โ€• Thalassa Cruso
[Last edited by Catmint20906 - Sep 21, 2014 6:38 AM (+)]
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Name: Tiffany
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purpleinopp
Sep 25, 2014 1:29 PM CST
I don't think people have time to change things every time some botanist looks through a microscope?
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
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โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Sep 25, 2014 3:24 PM CST

Plants Admin

The people who care about such things certainly have the time, or will make it. Fortunately for the people who don't, which I'd guess is the vast majority, the way Dave set up the database here it really doesn't matter when the names change. For example, if I prefer that time had stopped in the 1980's and Sky Blue Aster was still called Aster azureus instead of the unpronounceable name of Symphyotrichum oolentangiense Smiling , I'll have no trouble finding it in the database by typing Aster azureus into the search engine. Unless you are into the science of taxonomy, it's of almost no consequence which name is on top or has "Accepted" behind it.
Name: Tiffany
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purpleinopp
Sep 25, 2014 3:51 PM CST
TYVM! I totally understand that, I get how it works, and my comment was to the universe, not any particular person.

My issue is with changing the names at all. It's not a singular, universal decision, and the last people to know are those who have and love these plants, know them like the back of their hand, and then one day are told they don't know its' name. Well how many names does one plant need? Don't they all already have a botanical epithet? Yes, and everybody knew it, took a note of it.

In our current time, we're told it's because of genetic discoveries. What will be the next reason to change most of the plant names? Where/when will it end? How are people supposed to use plant names, (or uniquely indicate any specific plant) if the one thing needed from the name - stable uniqueness - is flexible? There are heated arguments out there about names, in less civilized venues than this where such things occur, and folks needlessly trying to decide the difference between their Sedum and their buddy's Hylotelephium. "Depends on when it was bought" as the answer to that question is utter nonsense. We're all wasting time on this very discussion because of unnecessarily fabricated confusion.
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Catmint/Robin
Maryland (Zone 7a)
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Catmint20906
Sep 25, 2014 4:54 PM CST
Kent--I agree that's a great solution of Dave's to have a list of 'synonym' names that will allow people to find a plant regardless of whether its name has changed or not.

"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yardsโ€
โ€• Thalassa Cruso
[Last edited by Catmint20906 - Sep 25, 2014 7:01 PM (+)]
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Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Sep 25, 2014 6:50 PM CST

Plants Admin

purpleinopp said: Where/when will it end?


It will never end. In science, the answer to any question is always subject to change, contingent on better information.

I always amazed at the angst that botanical names sometimes cause. I've said this before, but perhaps it bears repeating. Scientific names are just made up words, derived mostly from a dead language, describing a concept (the species) that doesn't actually exist.

Taxonomy is really just a mechanism to help us make sense out of a bewilderingly complex world. One of the reasons it works is because the researchers involved have all agreed to play by the same rules. The ability to change names is a critical aspect of those rules. Whether they understand it or not, if the 'don't change anything' people had their way, the end result would be chaos (which is what we had before the development of taxonomic systems).



[Last edited by KentPfeiffer - Sep 25, 2014 6:51 PM (+)]
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Name: Catmint/Robin
Maryland (Zone 7a)
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Region: Maryland Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 The WITWIT Badge
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Catmint20906
Sep 25, 2014 6:59 PM CST
KentPfeiffer said:
Taxonomy is really just a mechanism to help us make sense out of a bewilderingly complex world. One of the reasons it works is because the researchers involved have all agreed to play by the same rules. The ability to change names is a critical aspect of those rules. Whether they understand it or not, if the 'don't change anything' people had their way, the end result would be chaos (which is what we had before the development of taxonomic systems).


Totally agree, Kent. Sorry if for some reason I seemed to be one of those cantankerous 'don't change anything' people. Confused Sad Just trying to figure things out and keep track of things, is all.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yardsโ€
โ€• Thalassa Cruso
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Name: Deb
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Bonehead
Sep 26, 2014 11:48 AM CST
I'm happy that our database includes all the old and new names so I really don't have to stew about it that much. I'm vaguely aware that my tall sedums are some sort of telephone-pole thing now, but that's about as much thought I give to it. I will likely call them sedums to the grave, not to be cantankerous but because that is what my contemporaries know them as.

And...I had to do a web search to figure out what TYVM meant (ha ha).
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Name: Lynn
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valleylynn
Sep 26, 2014 12:41 PM CST
Bonehead said: I'm vaguely aware that my tall sedums are some sort of telephone-pole thing now, but that's about as much thought I give to it. I will likely call them sedums to the grave, not to be cantankerous but because that is what my contemporaries know them as.


I agree. However I am finding myself starting to remember the telephone-pole names. Didn't think that would ever happen. Green Grin!

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