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Oct 21, 2014 5:19 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
While I'm thinking about it, it's time to get my flu shot. I'll probably get it tomorrow when I get my allergy shots. I joke that I'm allergic to everything, but I'm not allergic to eggs. But if you are, you can take the Flublock vaccine which is made not using eggs, but caterpillar cells! Because caterpillars are awesome and they're saving the world. Okay, maybe that's a stretch but they are super awesome. My dad has a friend who is allergic to eggs and ironically was a five-star chef known for his souffles. I'll have to make sure he gets the caterpillar vaccine; he has enough health problems without adding the flu to it.
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Oct 21, 2014 6:06 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
I had no idea there was an "eggless" flu vaccine. I have often wondered what people who are allergic to eggs do about flu vaccine. Now I know! Too cool that they use caterpillar cells. Thanks for the lesson!

About the cats & their color...... I am sure there are regional differences or even differences from state to state or within a state. I wish "those that profess to be the experts" and write up the info. in the first place would think to check if it's different in different areas & put that info. in there too. Just b/c it's true in one state doesn't mean it's law in another state.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
Last edited by flaflwrgrl Oct 21, 2014 6:33 PM Icon for preview
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Oct 21, 2014 6:29 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Ann, I think the caterpillar vaccine just came out last year so it's really new.

I definitely agree about regional differences. I think it's really important to get a field guide for your area, if possible. But it's also good to read national or even worldwide butterfly books because you can learn a lot from them, too. The caterpillars you're going to raise are going to be local so it makes sense to learn them first. I was at a favorite local nursery for a butterfly talk a few years ago and the owner had caterpillars on display eating their host plants. Well, she went on to talk about each of the caterpillars and held up the Eastern Black Swallowtail caterpillar and called it an Anise Swallowtail. And they do look exactly alike and feed on many of the same plants. But (big but here), the Anise Swallowtail lives west of the Rockies! I didn't have the heart to correct her in front of like 50 people. Of course, now that I have no shame (thank you Klonopin!) I would totally do it. But in a nice way. I'm still nice, even if I have no shame. I'm sure she looked in some North American book and the caterpillars looked the same so she assumed that was the right one. But if she had looked in a Florida book she would have known the difference.

And of course, there are regional differences like how Viceroys will imitate Queens with their coloring in certain areas (like where I live). For me, it's weird to see an orange Viceroy. Also, it might be my wishful thinking, but I think the Red-Spotted Purples were more blue in WV. Maybe I just got an exceptionally nice one. It wasn't a fresh one as it was a little tattered, but it was so pretty! And some areas get more of the female dark-form Tiger Swallowtails while some areas get the regular yellow ones.
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Oct 21, 2014 11:18 PM CST
Name: Linda Williams
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
Organic Gardener Bookworm Enjoys or suffers hot summers Charter ATP Member Salvias Herbs
Bluebonnets Native Plants and Wildflowers Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Forum moderator Purslane Hummingbirder
The Monarch fall migration is finally here...in the area at least. Sunday we saw some flying along while we were on our way to have brunch in the little town of Pipe Creek. And this one was the only one I saw that joined the Queens who were enjoying a garden near the restaurant.
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However, unfortunately I haven't seen any Monarchs or Queens at my own place. I'm also disappointed at the lack of Buckeyes this fall. We have enough of the Agalinis host plants this fall and I haven't even see the butterfly lately, much less any eggs or caterpillars.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
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Oct 22, 2014 2:17 AM CST
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Amaryllis Hybridizer Canning and food preservation Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Orchids
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Pollen collector Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plays in the sandbox Sedums Seed Starter
I would love to see a panther, Melanie. Is that the Puma? That would just be a stunning experience. Lovely colour on those cats too. Feral pigs are a big environmental hazard here too. They turn everything over and eat anything living.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
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Oct 22, 2014 3:04 AM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Glen, Florida panthers are in the genus Puma, but everyone down here calls them panthers. They are also called cougars sometimes. Not sure why we Americans can't decide on one name and stick with it, LOL! I think they have some in rehabilitation facilities but I'm not sure they're open to the public. I wouldn't want to see one in the wild, that's for sure! I know it would probably run from me, but I'm not willing to take the chance. My dad and brother are gearing up for hunting season so maybe they can shoot some of those hogs. Their track record shooting deer is not so good. I sometimes forget what a problem Australia has with invasive species. It's such a shame because, like Florida, it's such a unique ecosystem.

I learned something new about butterflies and introduced species a few weeks ago. One of the ladies who works part-time at the museum also blogs a lot about butterflies. Her other job is social media manager for Birds and Blooms magazine. She wrote a good blog about those Chalcid wasps that infest our caterpillars. These are the tiny wasps that look ant-sized. Apparently, their primary host was Cabbage Whites, which were introduced from Europe. But since Cabbage Whites are mostly a spring and summer butterfly, they turn to Monarchs in the fall to parasatize. Here's the link if you want to read the whole thing: http://nblo.gs/10sg5b

Linda, I would love to see that many Queens! I have to agree on the Buckeyes, though. It's been a slow year for them here, too. No idea why. They use a wide variety of host plants and the weather has been fine so I'm not sure what's up. I've seen them, just not as often as I'm used to. Hopefully, next year will be better.
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Oct 22, 2014 5:32 AM CST
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Amaryllis Hybridizer Canning and food preservation Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Orchids
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Pollen collector Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plays in the sandbox Sedums Seed Starter
That is interesting. I wonder if the same here with are introduced Cabbage Whites. Incidentally, Monarchs are self introduced here. But they didn't get completely established until milkweed was introduced.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
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Oct 22, 2014 5:40 AM CST
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Amaryllis Hybridizer Canning and food preservation Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Orchids
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Pollen collector Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plays in the sandbox Sedums Seed Starter
The wasp Pteromalus puparum has been introduced into New Zealand apparently to control the Cabbage White. Now it is thought to be responsible for the decline of the New Zealand endemic red admiral butterfly Bassaris gonerilla .
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
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Oct 22, 2014 7:08 AM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Grumbling Grumbling Grumbling Grumbling Grumbling Grumbling Grumbling


Melanie, Busch Wildlife Sanctuary in Jupiter has a bunch of panthers/cougars whatever ...... They are all permanent residents there as they can not be returned to the wild. They were once peoples pets so will never make it in the wild. Awesome creatures. Huge & STRONG & you can't even believe how QUICK!!!!!! Silent too. One could be standing right behind you & you would never know it until your turned around.
http://www.buschwildlife.org

Whenever we went there it was always eerie how they would stare at my purse (leather). And the eeriest thing was when people brought children through. 6 yrs. & under, the panthers eyed them & you could tell without a trace of doubt the panthers were thinking they spied a meal. That was scary. Of course, they are well caged but it sent chills up your backbone to see the way they looked at children.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
Last edited by flaflwrgrl Oct 22, 2014 7:08 AM Icon for preview
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Oct 22, 2014 7:42 AM CST
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Amaryllis Hybridizer Canning and food preservation Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Orchids
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Pollen collector Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plays in the sandbox Sedums Seed Starter
Thanks for that link Ann.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
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Oct 22, 2014 7:53 AM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
I tip my hat to you.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Oct 22, 2014 2:22 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Ann, we have Big Cat Rescue here in Tampa, but I don't think they have any Florida panthers. What they do have is impressive, though. Actually, come to think of it, I got to pet a Florida panther once. It's weird I forgot about it until just now. I was in elementary school and they brought one to show us and it laid down on a table and we all got in line, real quiet, and one by one, we went up and petted it (if you wanted to). I remember thinking I may have to tell my grandchildren one day about how I petted a species that was now extinct. But things are looking up for them so here's hoping.

Glen, I get worried every time the scientists introduce one thing to combat another. Recently, they've released these beetles in Florida that eat air potato vine which is incredibly invasive here. It covers all the way up the trees so they get no light and die. I hope these beetles are safe, but I can't help but worry when we start messing with the ecosystem.

In butterfly news, one of the Spicebushies has made a chrysalis which is also a shade of yellow. Maybe for fall? Hilarious! I get the feeling these guys are going to overwinter with me. I may have to start an overwintering cage for all the chrysalises that refuse to come out.

Oh, my boss at MOSI posted on Facebook that the first email she had to send out the other day was to inquire who left the baking pan full of moth eggs and hatchlings in the lab. Apparently, we have become the pound for caterpillars. She offered them many types of food since she didn't know what they were - too small to identify. But she has since narrowed it down to either Regal Moths (more Hickory Horned Devils!) or Imperial Moths (never raised those before!). Either way, I'm excited.
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Oct 22, 2014 2:48 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
There were some people in Jupiter when I was growing up that had a place in Costa Rica & went down there every year. They would bring back all kinds of cats. They had a panther named Squeaky. They had to jump through hoops even back then (60's & early 70's) to bring them into the country. Squeaky had a chain link cage that took up their entire back yard & the top was all chain link too. I got to see & pet Squeaky. Jupiter was still very small at that point in time & everyone still knew everyone. Their kids were friends with my sister & brother so we got to go over & see the cats. We were instructed NOT to wear any perfume b/c it made her go crazy. Blinking Blinking Blinking So we went quite scentless. Hilarious! Hilarious! They also had 2 or 3 Ocelots, a jaguar & I don't remember what else. The local butcher kept busy providing them with chicken necks & other parts. The smaller cats lived in the house, all over the house. It was something that's for sure.

Uh oh, someone is dropping off orphaned eggs & hatchlings now. This could become a regular thing. Yikes!

Melanie, by spring you will overfloweth with flying critters in different stages of development. Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Oct 22, 2014 4:23 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Oh, this isn't the first time people have brought caterpillars to the museum. This year we had a guy bringing Monarchs but my boss had to ban him because they were all horribly parasatized. There was once a girl and her mom who brought us a Spicebush chrysalis. I can't remember why they couldn't keep it (maybe going out of town?). For liability reasons I can't let anyone in the lab, but I told them to come in and just don't touch anything! I figure anyone who donates a Spicebush gets special privileges. The little girl loved looking at all the tanks full of caterpillars.

I can't believe I forgot to share this pic with you guys, but here it is. Apparently, it's popular to create caterpillars out of pumpkins now. That's one trend I can support! My dad had a friend post one on Facebook but due to the permissions, he couldn't share it. But that reminded me of one that Monarch Watch shared from Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens. How awesome is this?

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Oct 22, 2014 4:29 PM CST
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Amaryllis Hybridizer Canning and food preservation Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Orchids
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Pollen collector Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plays in the sandbox Sedums Seed Starter
That is cool.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
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Oct 22, 2014 4:51 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Took the words right out of my mouth Glen. I agree
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Oct 22, 2014 10:31 PM CST
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Morning Glories Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants Butterflies Garden Photography
I agree nodding
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Oct 25, 2014 9:03 AM CST
Name: Dave
Dayton, TN (Zone 7a)
Blessed beyond all merit.
Houseplants Lilies Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Container Gardener
Butterflies Hummingbirder Tropicals Cottage Gardener Foliage Fan Aroids
A tattered Gulf Fritillary

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Oct 25, 2014 2:11 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Here's a couple from yesterday and one from today.

Long-Tailed Skippers still all over my porterweed.

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And I've had these bees on my porterweed all year. There's usually only one or two on it at a time. I don't see bunches of them, but I'm glad to see bees at all.

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And a Zebra Longwing.

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And just now I went to pick food for the Sulphurs and there was a Polydamas ST flying around. It makes sense that I would have some because when I got back from vacation they were fat caterpillars. Still, I thought they would stay in their chrysalis as Polydamas are more tropical and generally overwinter longer than the other Swallowtails. I also noticed that while it was in my butterfly garden, it nectared on several plants. It started on the Sweet Almond Bush, moved to the firebush, then the Spanish Needles (which I rarely see used by Swallowtails), and then the red and pink pentas. It spent more time on the pink. Usually, they just eat the pentas. They'll also eat the plumbago in front of the house, but as far as the "official" butterfly area they generally stick to pentas. Do flowers produce less nectar when it gets cooler? Maybe it required more sources to get more nectar. Just thinking out loud here.

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Oct 25, 2014 3:00 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
That's a good question Melanie.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown

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