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Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Oct 15, 2014 2:57 PM CST
Does any one here have any knowledge of Ca. Rose culture for the cut flower trade? I have one (rosa Taboo) that was bred for cut flowers. The first flush is perfect, weather permitting. After that the flowers get smaller with each flush, and the bush is now 10' tall. It is in a SW exposure, gets cut back in Jan. to 2 or 3 feet. I'm not sure about soil ph, but the water is high. Any advice?

Carol
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Oct 17, 2014 1:16 PM CST

Moderator

This year and last year, my rose blooms got smaller as the year progressed, but I think this was due to the drought. There was enough rain for the spring buds to develop properly, but not enough precipitation for subsequent bloom flushes to show their full potential.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Oct 17, 2014 1:35 PM CST
Nothing in my garden looks good this year, and I'm sure the drought is to blame, but this rose always has done that. From the little information I could find, it may be lack of food. They may feed those often for the cut flower industry. If we don't get some rain this year, the roses are gone!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Oct 17, 2014 3:50 PM CST
Carol ...

It's not lack of food. Some roses automatically reduce bloom size after the first flush in spring.

Roses are incredible survivors and as temps increase they will automatically put moisture into the foliage which produces food for the plant through photosynthesis and hold moisture in the root zone for continued survival. It takes a lot of plant energy to produce large blooms, so the plant allocates its resources to the parts of the plant that will help it survive best. You will notice that in fall as the temps get a bit cooler, the bloom size increases. That's in the genetics of the rose.

Of course, the drought also has an impact on this process. Even tho' you say the roses have plenty of water there are a lot of variables we can't see that can trigger a rose into a stronger survival mode during periods of drought than you would see in normal years.

Many of us are culling our gardens of plants that are having difficulty in this extreme drought. Some roses are actually more drought tolerant than others.

Good luck with your roses.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Oct 18, 2014 11:29 AM CST
Thank you for your input, Lyn. That still makes me wonder what the growers do with that bush after the first flush. Maybe sell the smaller blooms to the perfume industry? Shrug!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Oct 18, 2014 12:09 PM CST
Hi Carol,

Florist roses are grown inside green houses to maintain the optimum bloom size for the florist industry in a controlled environment. In the green house they can control temperature, ambient humidity, the quality of the light and more. The growing medium is different and how they provide nutrients to the plants is different than how we provide food for the roses in our gardens.

The roses selected for the florist trade must meet very specific requirements to meet production goals and shipping requirements. One example is that most florist roses have heavy petal substance that slows the opening of the blooms and provides for less damage to the blooms during shipping, which is why most florist roses do not have a strong fragrance. They would not provide the right kind of fragrance to be used by the perfume industry.

The whole process is truly quite sophisticated. There's a lot more to it that enables the florist industry to produce enough blooms to meet the demands of the market, but I think you get the general idea.

Since we love these roses so much, some of them are sold as garden roses, but they were never bred to be good garden roses. Some of them can do well in some climates, but generally, florist roses are not considered to be good garden plants.

Smaller blooms for garden roses are also common after the first flush in spring, depending on the rose and all of the variables that can impact the rose in your garden.

I have high summer temps and some of my roses go into summer dormancy and do not bloom again until the temps drop. I keep them in the garden because they are so beautiful, to me, in the spring and the fall, I just have to have them as a part of my garden. I rely on other roses and other plants for the summer bloom period.

At this time, I only have one florist rose in my garden, 'Kardinal 85'. I've loved this rose forever, so I truly don't mind that I have smaller blooms during the summer. I just want a healthy plant so that I can have good bloom performance for spring and fall. During the summer, even the smaller blooms are welcome because they still provide a splash of color for the garden.

Smiles,
Lyn



I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Oct 18, 2014 5:02 PM CST
So. Cal. is a whole different world than your area. Your heat and ours are very different, as is the drought situation. Even the heat lovers suffered here this year. We only passed the 100 mark once in the spring, but when temps go from the 70s to the high 90s for four or five days nothing has time to adapt. This last heat wave fried plants that have been in the same location for 6 or 7 years with no damage, and our 3.0 something inches of rain for the last season certainly didn't help. We're at .03" so far for this season. We are stuck between the monsoons and the northern storms and get nothing. but clouds out of either. Thank God for the marine layer that we have had most of the summer...its the only moisture we've had and none of the plants like city water. Ok! I'll stop whining now and go repeat the serenity prayer...again.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Oct 18, 2014 6:08 PM CST
Carol, I moved up here 10 years ago from the San Diego area, so I have a sense of what your climate is like.

I've done my fair share of whining about the impact of the drought. I've never experienced anything like this and it's down right depressing. It certainly has not been a fun gardening year.

Take care.

Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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