That's an interesting thought, re scape thickness. I've casually noticed that some of the daylilies of mine that tend to lean, also have slender scapes; a few of the diploids come to mind. I would think that the tets would overall have thicker scapes, but a few of my tets lean, too.

Also, I suspect that having large flowers on top of tall scapes contributes to lean. 'Sears Tower' starts out okay here, but once it starts to bloom, the scapes start to lean with the weight of the bloom(s). 'Big Birds Friend' also leans.

I remember once, a long time ago, reading about spiders - I think this was in the context of the earlier days of tet spiders, and on someone's hybridizing program. The person writing commented about how people touring a garden or nursery would pick the scape off the ground to look at the flower, lay the scape back down again, and buy the plant! That was how weak the scapes were. So that adds another facet to the problem... is it that leaning scapes are (also, not solely) genetically related to spiders/spidery daylilies, as opposed to simply large flowers? The ones of mine that lean are mostly (not entirely) spidery, or UF. Hmmm.

Well, I can live with leaning, but prostrate wouldn't be satisfactory :smily:. If a plants' stalk has grown under windy conditions, it seems better at handling the wind when it blooms. When it a week of good growing weather without wind and then it turns windy again the results aren't so good. I really do enjoy the occasional days without wind, though.

I would keep a few dl that have wimpy scapes and just stake them, if I liked the bloom well enough and they bloomed alot. But if it didn't meet those requirements it wouldn't be worth staking and I would toss it. Although Ideally hybridizers would not introduce those weak scapes that fall over. I can see how a plant may have stronger scapes in one part of the country depending on conditions and that would change in another area. But don't most hybridizers spread their seedling around the country for a while to be grown in different conditions before choosing to register and intro them?

I'll bet testing seedlings in different areas is extremely variable. Gossard probably would have no trouble getting someone to grow a seedling he wanted tested, but Aunt Edna Mae down the street has a couple of dozen that she really likes and probably no one has any more room to test them. She ends up introducing those she really, really likes based on how they've done for her (and a couple of relatives and friends) with no further testing. Even with someone like Gossard, I expect most of the testing is done by other expert growers/hybridizers. Since even common daylilies aren't commonly seen growing in my area it may be moot for me either way. Just guessing and not criticizing here.

We had a very wet spring last year and a lot of my spiders that have scapes that normally do not lean, were learning. I think sometimes too much rain can be a factor if the scape grows too fast and taller than it is registered at also.

Would be good to have reference to scape strength when it comes to purchases. I suppose one could ask before purchasing.

When it to tall and strong, Judy Davison's plants are among the best I've ever purchased. Tall strong but not so thick that you get blasting of the scapes.

Of the Northwind series (for example) Northwind Larry is the best at keeping those tall scapes up. Had I consider this before purchasing I would have done a better job at selecting. Didn't realize that scapes laying on the ground would bother me so much. Northwind Dancer was removed this past fall. Were I to hybridize definitely would not be using a plant with weak scapes.

The same is true of some daylilies by Brain Mahieu and other hybridizers. Some keep their scapes up others lay on the ground.

What good is a back of the border plant if the scapes are lying on the ground where one can't see them.

Odd about North Wind Dancer. I have never had its scapes lay on the ground.

It's my own belief that scape/stalk strength isn't solely determined by genetics. Growing conditions are outside factors that affect how they grow. Temperature, moisture, rate of growth, wind all come into play. So some years I've noticed plants do really well, but in other years they perform miserably. My observations aren't with daylilies as much as with other plants, but I'd expect to see the same from any plant. Give food and conditions for rapid growth along with seesaw temperatures with some wind and I'd expect some scapes would be crawling on the ground like snakes.

I agree Donald. One year we had excessive rain in the spring causing a fast growth spurt in scapes and that year I saw more weak scapes than ever before.