Roses forum: Mis-labeled Rose

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Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
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Henhouse
Apr 2, 2015 11:40 PM CST
Hi, I know some of you from other forums here, but haven't jumped on this forum yet.

Some years back, I bought several roses from a Northern California mail-order nursery that has gone out of business. More recently, I found pictures here on ATP that don't match the rose I have. It was bought as 'Mark Sullivan', but I'm pretty sure it isn't now...
It's on it's own roots and is a bit of a wimpy grower.. The stems are often not substantial enough to hold up the roses, which can be fairly large. The closest I could find on the nursery's website is 'Serenade', but they didn't have pictures of a lot that they sold...
Any thoughts?
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Apr 2, 2015 11:49 PM CST

Moderator

Hi, Sherry. That's definitely not Mark Sullivan. It could be Serenade. Mine's also a wimpy grower.
Name: Mike
Long Beach, Ca.
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Region: California Hummingbirder Farmer
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Calsurf73
Apr 3, 2015 8:52 AM CST
Very pretty rose ! It doesn't look that "wimpy" to me, however.
Is it fragrant ?

Earlier this week I saw a gargantuan Cl. Talisman rose which completely covers the roof of a detatched 2 car garage.
According to the homeowner it's 70 years old. His grandmother planted it. Normally, that one gets powdery mildew really bad here, but this one was incredible. I asked the guy how he prunes it and he said every 5 years he takes a chain saw to it and sheers it off flat to the roof and that's it !
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Apr 3, 2015 8:53 PM CST
The flowers are far from wimpy.. a good 5" across... but it's been in the ground for several years, and doesn't put out strong canes. The twiggy stems have a hard time keeping those flowers upright. It's got a light scent.

I wonder if that Talisman doesn't get mildew because of the extra heat off the roof? There are a few roses I'd take a chainsaw to... Mermaid comes to mind Hilarious!

Here's another one with a lost name... I got it back in the early 90's when I worked for Smith and Hawken.. I was ordering mini roses from Mini Plant Kingdom in N. California, and this was one I'd kept in a pot 'til I moved here 17 years ago.
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When counting, try not to mix chickens with blessings.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Apr 3, 2015 9:21 PM CST

Moderator

Miniature Plant Kingdom used to carry some truly obscure roses, but because of the dahlia-like arrangement of the petals on your rose, I'm almost certain it's one of Ralph Moore's roses.

Renny is his most popular mini with those petals:

Rose (Rosa 'Renny')

The Dahlia Rose is a floribunda, but it's usually no bigger than a mini when it's growing on its own roots:

Rose (Rosa 'The Dahlia Rose')
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Apr 4, 2015 1:02 AM CST
Thanks Zuzu! Pretty sure it's not Renny.. The Dahlia Rose looks very much like it, but I struggle with the Floribunda.. but then it wouldn't be the only mini I got that wasn't Smiling I used to order from Ralph Moore, and may still have some of his old catalogs... That might be a good place to start. I know I still have some of Mini Plant Kingdom's catalogs, but Becky never listed her roses in there.. You don't happen to know if they're still around, do you? He was such a character... I've got a bunch of his Japanese collection of Nandinas too..

Another "mini" from them (Francine Austin on the left):
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Apr 4, 2015 1:05 AM CST
Sequoia used to wholesale roses to a lot of nurseries and I know the Mini Plant Kingdom was one of his customers. I think the Mini Plant Kingdom closed several years ago.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Apr 4, 2015 1:11 AM CST

Moderator

The nursery's been closed for several years. He definitely was a character. The first time I went there, he insisted on giving me the grand tour and kept shoving plants into my purse and pockets, saying, "Don't tell anyone." I assumed he was an employee who would get into trouble with management for giving me free plants, but he turned out to be the owner. Hilarious!

We have 222 of Ralph Moore's roses in our database, most with photos. You can use this page to search for them. Just scroll down to the hybridizer line and enter Moore.

http://garden.org/plants/group/roses/search/
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Apr 4, 2015 10:30 AM CST
I was hoping for more pictures in those old catalogs.. I found Nor-East, Moore's & Sequoia in my files.. (and Pickering and Hortico etc...).. but didn't find a match with the limited pictures... Thanks, Zuzu, I'll search under Ralph Moore... the Dahlia Rose is another that has very similar form...
When counting, try not to mix chickens with blessings.

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