Lilies forum: What would you do?

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Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Apr 13, 2015 9:38 AM CST
I have some seedlings of some orientals, martagons, gloriosoides and monadelphum coming out of the fridge after their first three month cold storage so they will throw up their first true leaves.

I was thinking up potting them up and leaving them outside as it shouldn't get below freezing any more and the temperatures are consistently in the 50's and up.

My other option is to pot them up and put them under lights for a little while and then transition them to outside life or keep them inside.
I'm leaning towards potting up and leaving outside because my space under lights will be limited especially with my veggies that have sprouted but I'm probably gonna go with the best course for the health of the seedlings.

Thoughts?
[Last edited by Joebass - Apr 13, 2015 9:40 AM (+)]
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Apr 13, 2015 6:17 PM CST
You are right, it will work either way, but the outside method is definitely better in my opinion. The diurnal fluctuation in temperature is of great value to plants: warm during the daylight hours to increase photosynthesis, and cooler at night to decrease respiration and thereby building stronger, sturdier plants. Even if you lower your house temp at night, it takes a long time for the temp to go down, especially at this time of year, so the duration of the lower temperature is far less. And the day/night temp fluctuation needs to be at least 10°F to even begin to match nature. In addition, you will never attain the full goodness of natural light with artificial lighting. The down side is that you will wait longer for visible growth.

I might also suggest you try this small variation of planting, especially with L. monadelphum and L. gloriosoides:
--- Using moist soil, plant as you normally would, but don't water right after. Cover with plastic or seal in a plastic bag for four days if inside, a week if outside. Then water.

What this does is allow the natural mending of roots (or the bulb) that might have been damaged during planting without the encouragement of pathogens that invade much more easily when the soil is wet. This is a practice often used with cactus, whose damaged roots can be very prone to root rot, and need to callus prior to watering. I find it very useful for any plant whose immediate need for additional water is negligible (having no or few leaves), and also for those that seem to have very delicate roots. Obviously, your tiny bulbs have no leaves that would require water, and at the most this method will only delay growth by a few days. Visible growth may be slightly delayed, but wound mending will be better. (There is plenty of moisture for that.)
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Apr 13, 2015 9:41 PM CST
Leftwood said:You are right, it will work either way, but the outside method is definitely better in my opinion. The diurnal fluctuation in temperature is of great value to plants: warm during the daylight hours to increase photosynthesis, and cooler at night to decrease respiration and thereby building stronger, sturdier plants. Even if you lower your house temp at night, it takes a long time for the temp to go down, especially at this time of year, so the duration of the lower temperature is far less. And the day/night temp fluctuation needs to be at least 10°F to even begin to match nature. In addition, you will never attain the full goodness of natural light with artificial lighting. The down side is that you will wait longer for visible growth.


Even if you're not into species and only do regular cultivar crossing and seeding (like me) this is some darn good, sound advise. For example, I've moved more than half of my seedlings that I just planted around the 1st. of March into the greenhouse already. I do so when the first true leaf is barely visible. The reason: too hot in here and nights are too short. I like to hold daytime temps. of about 70-75'F and nighttime temps. of about 50'F. Nights are longer out there, too; in here the lights come on at 4AM to 8PM. Even if the temperature should drop into the 30's in the greenhouse like when I disconnect and forget to reconnect a small heater, it's no problem. And don't think of my greenhouse as like the pampered commercial greenhouses, either. Mine is basically a poly shelter to protect the plants from the tougher elements of wind, heavy rain and hail, etc., but it works really well for building strong, sturdy young plants. The sooner you can get them out of the house, the better. Smiling

Edit: picture added showing in house temp and greenhouse temp 10:46 PM Monday night.


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[Last edited by Roosterlorn - Apr 13, 2015 9:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Apr 13, 2015 9:43 PM CST
lilies are tough as nails, outside will work fine. work in a tablespoon of 4-10-10 organic bulb food for every bulb in the pot, add a half cup of bone meal to the soil surface as soon as the eyes appear. when they're done flowering give them another tablespoon of 4-10-10 per bulb, followed up by a cup of alfalfa meal in august. your bulbs will be twice the size next spring!
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Apr 13, 2015 11:17 PM CST
Welcome to the forum, Riverman!

That's good advice for larger plants, but Joe's lily species seed bulbs are tiny: only about 1/16-1/8 inch. As he mentions, because they are special species they will each only throw up only one small leaf this whole first growing season. So in this case, with these special species lilies, that amount of fertilizer is a bit much, in my opinion.

P.S. Love your avatar!
[Last edited by Leftwood - Apr 14, 2015 8:05 AM (+)]
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Apr 14, 2015 8:06 AM CST
Forgot to add that the "days of no watering" after transplanting is a subjective estimation on my part based on my own knowledge and experience. As usual, it is difficult to find concrete answers from a credible source. But it should not matter much, 4 days to even 2-3 weeks, except for the delay in visible growth. The plant won't be in need of water to remain healthy because there is no water loss in the closed environment of a plastic bag; it just may not have enough water to grow substantially.
[Last edited by Leftwood - Apr 14, 2015 8:07 AM (+)]
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Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Apr 14, 2015 4:44 PM CST
I like the title of this thread 'What Would You Do?' It kind of leads into ' Here's what I did' kind of thing.

You all remember the bulb that got mutilated by voles a year ago during winter of 2013-14 (first 3 pictures). Well, I powdered her up with Captan and replanted it. And, once again, mother nature likes me. Big Grin Look what's coming up, a real strong will to live, albeit a little set back (last couple pictures).
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Now look--- Hurray! Hurray!


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Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Apr 14, 2015 4:52 PM CST

Moderator

I figure (my experience here) that if at least some basal plate and scales are intact then I am good to go with a pretty fair chance of saving the lily. Good save, Lorn!
Name: ursula
Chile (Zone 9b)
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Mutisia
Apr 14, 2015 5:13 PM CST
Wonderful!!!!! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!

Please don't forget to post the flowers when they bloom.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Apr 14, 2015 6:14 PM CST
Slugs: Sluggo PLUS
Here's one product that really works for slug control around lilies. I don't feel comfortable about posting pictures of company products, but when I find something that really works, I am going to tell my fellow gardeners about it. Slugs are difficult to deal with; there is no cure all. THE BEST WAY IS TO BE PROACTIVE AND PREVENTIVE EARLY IN THE GROWING SEASON. What I do is throw a few handfuls of pellets around directly in the garden shortly after the noses are up. At the same time, I sprinkle a barrier of pellets all around the outside border. This stops any new ones from coming into the garden. One application seems to last me about a month. And for every one or two slugs you can prevent today---that translates into dozens that won't be born during the height of the season. This product really controls their population down to next to nothing. For patio potted lilies, I sprinkle a few pellets around the base of the pot rather than in the soil, but either way, it works there too. This product should be available at most ''better' garden centers in your area.
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Apr 14, 2015 6:22 PM CST
I don't have as much problem as you Lorn, but I do have a different brand of iron phosphate slug killer. It doesn't have Spinosad.

Any comment on that?
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Apr 14, 2015 8:19 PM CST
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I believe the Iron Phos targets primarily the slugs and snails by acting mainly as a repellent. The Spinocade, Spinocide, or however they want to spell it, targets other more leggy types by acting as a contact poison. I live in a state owned nature preserve that's highly organic at the surface. You can smell it--all the action going on with decomposition. The soil is teaming with all sorts of creatures. Slugs attack the tender noses of lilies here as well as baby stem bulblets. Cutworms are always a problem because they'll bite the stems off young offsets underground. This product will kill anything catapiller-like as well. As I understand it, Spinocade is a natural toxin produced by/derived from bacteria in the soil. I haven't observed any detrimental effects in the two years I've been using it.
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Apr 14, 2015 8:37 PM CST
I appreciate the replies. Rick unfortunately, I acted before there was a reply and watered the seedlings right after planting. They have been outside after the last two nights. I'm sticking with leaving them outside and with some luck they'll do well.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Apr 15, 2015 10:09 PM CST
Lorn, I thought you were going to say you drown them in coke! Rolling on the floor laughing

(Seriously, beer traps were a great slug killer back in the day nodding )
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Apr 16, 2015 4:24 AM CST
Oh, people still use beer traps around here. I used to, but they have to be managed, too, which got to be a pain in the butt. There are some things you can't raise at all around here without some form of good slug control and delphiniums are one. It was like a fisherman's worm being attacked by ants. In that particular case, beer traps were not effective because they went for the delphiniums over the beer. I've tried cut pieces of copper wire, also. That worked to a degree, but they still found a way. With this Sluggo stuff, it's just one easy application early in the season and then a reapplication when I start to see evidence of them again. But the important thing I've determined is, if I can kill off that initial population surge early, there are less slugs to deal with all summer long.

I like to use a soda pop can for size reference if I have one handy.
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Apr 23, 2015 7:11 PM CST
Update: So far all the marts and orientals are popping their first leaves and even my one gloriosoides leaf is popping! The outside choice is going well......
Name: Paul
Nullawarre, Victoria,Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia
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vanozzi
Apr 24, 2015 7:39 AM CST
Isn't it nice when things work out and go your way Joe.Great to hear at least one speciosum gloriosoides has emerged ,early days yet.
Different latitudes, different attitudes
[Last edited by vanozzi - May 7, 2015 10:17 PM (+)]
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Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
May 7, 2015 9:23 PM CST
I put my L. Ledebourii seedlings in the fridge on 3/17 and was wondering if two months would be good enough in the cool cycle before I throw them out to pop up the first leaf. I don't wanna wait to long to get these guys their first leaf but I'd like to make sure they have enough of a cool period. Any thoughts?
[Last edited by Joebass - May 7, 2015 9:24 PM (+)]
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Name: Paul
Nullawarre, Victoria,Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia
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vanozzi
May 7, 2015 10:35 PM CST
Hi Joe, my success with Ledebourii has not been a screaming triump, but this past season I tried Joe Hoell's method of NO cold period with 52 (my entire crop) oriental crosses.It was amazing, total success, I'll continue to do that with orientals and may try it this year with martagons.
When I give my marts their warm/cold period, I only give them 2 months in the fridge (each time) when giving them 2 periods of warm/cold in any one year.
Good luck!
Different latitudes, different attitudes
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
May 8, 2015 5:56 AM CST
Paul please expound further on Joe Hoell's no cold period method! What happens and why was it amazing? Thanks.

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