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The first one reminds me of a hydrangea but not sure. It's so familiar. Maybe a helinium? I should know this one!!!

Second one is an echinacea.

1. http://garden.org/plants/searc...

First one looks familiar but nothing coming to me yet. Second one looks like Rudbeckia 'Goldsturm'. Be easier to tell later

I was thinking Helliopsis on the first one and Rudbeckia on the second. Too hairy to be Echinacea

I'm not sure if it's an optical illusion but the first one looks like it might have square stems. If it does that would most likely, but not exclusively, put it in the mint family Lamiaceae.

Ooh! Good eye! Might it be a type of Monarda??

Of course, rude Rudbeckia, not echinacea.

jvdubb said:Might it be a type of Monarda??

I wondered about that but I don't think the leaf tips are pointy enough.

#1 with jvdubb. My Heliopsis helianthoides looks like this right now.

Dang, I had the "h" part right!!!!

Heliopsis helianthoides looks to have sharper teeth on the leaf edges than the plant in question - scroll down to second picture here:

http://www.missouriplants.com/...

@Anderwood, can you verify that the stems are square in plant 1 and that I'm not seeing things that aren't there? If they are it would narrow down the possibilities. I don't recall heliopsis being one of the plants that, in addition to the mint family, has square stems.

They are square.

Anderwood said:They are square.

OK, thank you, that narrows the field down to something in the mint family or one of the few other plants that also have square stems.

Does it smell minty?