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Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Region: Oregon Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs Beekeeper
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Toni
Apr 26, 2015 4:05 PM CST
Can someone ID this? I have found many of them in my garden. They are just a bit over one inch long. Would you want them in your garden?
Thumb of 2015-04-26/Toni/7f1337

Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Apr 26, 2015 4:13 PM CST
Toni, I don't know what insect it is but before you get rid of it you might want to post the photo on this thread: The thread "April 2015 Butterflies, Moths & Larva" in Gardening for Butterflies, Birds and Bees forum Someone there might recognize it and be able to give an exact ID. It'd be a shame to get rid of it if it happens to be larva or cocoon for a good insect!
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Region: Oregon Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs Beekeeper
Permaculture Composter Canning and food preservation Bee Lover Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Toni
Apr 26, 2015 5:01 PM CST
Thank you Lin. I reposted it. Thank you for putting a link that I could access the right thread quickly as I am out in the garden on my phone and couldn't find that thread originally. I would never intentionally hurt anything in my garden, usually not even the pests Hilarious!
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Apr 26, 2015 5:23 PM CST
Toni, you are welcome. I figured one of the really knowledgeable folks over there will probably recognize it right away and be able to tell you if it's good or bad.

LOL, I've been known to squish first and ask questions later when it comes to bugs. I know I probably killed my share of good bugs over the years. Smiling
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Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped beta test the first seed swap Region: United States of America Region: Michigan
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Weedwhacker
Apr 26, 2015 8:28 PM CST
I'm looking forward to seeing an answer to this as well -- I know I've seen those in my garden!
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Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
Pour vivre parmi les fleurs
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Zencat
Apr 26, 2015 10:16 PM CST
I think they're Hawk Moth pupa. Something in the Sphingidae.
[Last edited by Zencat - Apr 26, 2015 10:17 PM (+)]
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Apr 27, 2015 1:31 PM CST
Good eye Celia, it may very well be a variety of Sphinx Moth. Here are a few found in Oregon, scroll down these pages for image comparisons:

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/schersis.htm

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/sdrupife.htm

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/spereleg.htm

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/ssequoia.htm

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/svashti.htm
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Apr 27, 2015 2:25 PM CST
If you look at Lin's link
http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/spereleg.htm
the pupa appears to have a kind of curly "tail". Does the suspect in question have that? I can't tell from the image.

This one on Bugguide is a more obvious "tail":
http://bugguide.net/node/view/513050/bgimage

We have two threads going for this now, and I suggested on the other one that it might be a cutworm pupa, see:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/insects/images/fad06s...

Only way to be sure what it is is to keep one in a clear jar with a perforated lid and see what emerges from the case. Much easier to ID such critters as adults.

Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Region: Oregon Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs Beekeeper
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Toni
Apr 27, 2015 2:34 PM CST
@sooby no it doesn't have a curly tail.
I am afraid I will kill it if I put it in a jar to hatch.... Maybe I will get brave... Crying
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Apr 27, 2015 2:35 PM CST
If you just scoop it up with a bit of soil it should be fine, don't even need to touch it Smiling If it is a cutworm you actually might want to kill it Hilarious!
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped beta test the first seed swap Region: United States of America Region: Michigan
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Weedwhacker
Apr 27, 2015 6:36 PM CST
Ahhh -- thanks for this info! I believe that the ones I've seen are likely from tomato hornworms, which I only rather recently learned become "hummingbird moths." I'm a bit conflicted on this one, because I like the moths, the worms not so much... maybe I need to plant a couple of tomatoes specifically for the hornworms and move all the cats to those plants Whistling
"Blessed is he who has learned to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."
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Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Region: Oregon Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs Beekeeper
Permaculture Composter Canning and food preservation Bee Lover Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Toni
Apr 27, 2015 9:06 PM CST
Oh my gosh! I didn't know hummingbird moths were tomato horn worms! Why have I seen hummingbird moths in the mountains where no tomatoes ever lived...? I definitely couldn't kill those - they are awesome
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Apr 27, 2015 9:10 PM CST
I'm no expert ( Rolling on the floor laughing still getting over the embarrassment of not knowing insect frass when I saw...and planted it *Blush* ) but would it help us to know what type of plants grow near where this was found? and in what type of soil?

Please consider putting it in a jar as was recommended. We would all like to see what emerges. Thank You!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
Pour vivre parmi les fleurs
Irises Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Butterflies Birds
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Hummingbirder Plant Identifier
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Zencat
Apr 27, 2015 9:42 PM CST
Yes, please! I agree Put it in a jar so we know for sure.
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped beta test the first seed swap Region: United States of America Region: Michigan
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Birds Butterflies Dog Lover Cat Lover
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Weedwhacker
Apr 28, 2015 7:20 AM CST
Toni said:Oh my gosh! I didn't know hummingbird moths were tomato horn worms! Why have I seen hummingbird moths in the mountains where no tomatoes ever lived...? I definitely couldn't kill those - they are awesome


Toni, I just learned this last year -- I had some damage on my tomato plants and in the process of trying to figure out what was doing it, having never seen the hornworms here before, found that it was not only hornworms on the plants but also that the hummer moths I had been seeing in my flowers (also unusual, I had seen them but not here at home) came from those caterpillars! Kind of like the year I discovered that what I considered to be nasty-looking, hairy caterpillars infesting my borage and petunias were actually Painted Lady butterfly babies Blinking

http://texasbutterflyranch.com/2012/06/21/loathed-by-gardene...

(There are quite a few different sphinx moths, so not just from the tomato hornworm...)

Smiling
"Blessed is he who has learned to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."
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Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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stone
May 1, 2015 7:21 AM CST
If you are finding them in the veggie patch... I think that tomato horn worm (manducca sexta) is likely.
They're not the gorgeous hummingbird moth...
But they are still very cool.
I took some pictures last year...
http://gardens-in-the-sand.blogspot.com/2014/08/hawk-moths.h...

When I get caterpillars on the tomatoes, I might move them to the datura... Or to the black nightshade... They will often show up on the alternate host plants without my help. :)
[Last edited by stone - May 1, 2015 7:30 AM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 1, 2015 7:35 AM CST
From these pictures of tomato hornworm pupa, unfortunately doesn't match:

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/field/hornworm.htm
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Region: Oregon Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs Beekeeper
Permaculture Composter Canning and food preservation Bee Lover Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Toni
May 1, 2015 8:44 AM CST
@sooby That link was very interesting. Thank You!
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Moonhowl
May 1, 2015 9:43 PM CST
Toni, I thought you might find this link useful to you. Celia is right, it is probably one of the "hawkmoth" pupas. This link catalogs all the moths found in the PNW and has great pictures.

http://pnwmoths.biol.wwu.edu/
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 2, 2015 7:01 AM CST
Toni said:@sooby That link was very interesting. Thank You!


Glad it was useful. It does rule out hornworms since your pupa doesn't have the "jug handle" proboscis. Apparently there are some Sphingidae that don't have this so can't rule out the family altogether I guess. I also don't think we can rule out cutworm/armyworm (Noctuidae) relatives just yet either. Did you happen to keep the pupa in captivity? If not I guess we'll never know.........

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