Now THAT's an interesting approach -- I just might give that a try myself!

we have used raw cedar planks (fence boards), in the past. they blend in nicely, being all rustic and what not. haven't put any down this spring so far...

Jason I am sorry I did not see your question yesterday. I am using about 3 cups of coffee.

To gauge the size of what I am doing this is what it looked like before I turned it into the shade garden.



This is when I completed the planting.



Look at these leaves no bites. Like I said I swear by my free coffee,

This is what I just read about ammonia (and other things):

For starters, let’s look at the practice of using ammonia as a fertilizer. The earliest record I can find of such a theory is in 1870, actually. As it turns out, there is merit to this practice. Ammonia is comprised primarily of nitrogen and as such it does indeed provide nitrogen in a form that plants can use. However, I actually had a couple of folks suggest that I should even add it to my Miracle Gro. Uh, no. Miracle Gro already has nitrogen in it. Now here’s the rub though. Most folks just go to the store and buy what’s labeled as ammonia, when in fact there’s only 3 to 10 percent ammonia in the product, along with other things that AREN’T good for your plants. Most household ammonias can actually be toxic to plants,
containing aqueus ammonia instead of the helpful ammonia ions. Another snag to this widespread suggestion is that when you combine the ammonia with your water, you’ll have an unpredictable finished product based on the pH level of your water and your soil. The pH level will impact how much ammonia is being absorbed, whether it’s too hot for the soil, etc. So, my suggestion, since there are too many unknowns to this practice, I’d say PASS. Go with something that you can actually control and be sure of when it comes to fertilizers for your garden.

While we’re on the topic of fertilizers, let’s talk about using beer as a fertilizer. This one was quite the conundrum. I can understand how some might thing that the fermentation process of beer might provide valuable nutrients to the soil and plants, but the fact is, there is absolutely no evidence which shows the beer is a good fertilizer. In fact, since most beers contain alcohol, and alcohol is definitely bad for your plants, I’m definitely going to chalk this little bit of advice as that which would only come from a snockered gardener. Yes, beer does increase bacterial growth, but as master gardener Jeff Gillman points out in his many books on the subject, beer doesn’t get to control what kind of bacteria it proliferates. Good bacteria? Sure. But you also will get plenty of the bad along with it. So again… PASS.

Are eggshells worth the hassle to use in your garden? Well, yes, if you’ve got them. And no if it means that you’re going to go through
image: http://www.preparednesspro.com...
all of the efforts suggested by many such as boiling them and then letting them soak for a day and then applying that water to your plants. The content of calcium, potassium, phosphorus, and magnesium are so small that it takes a lot of egg shells to do you much good in your garden. But hey, having them as a part of your compost is better than a sharp stick in the eye. So yes, if you’ve got them, go ahead and crush them up and use them. They won’t hurt your plants and they will at least give them a slow-drip kind of nutrients.

Read more at http://www.preparednesspro.com...

Interesting article, but I think she lost some credibility with this statement:

"You can also use powdered buttermilk, butter, or other like protein items if they’ve expired past your palate’s ability to enjoy them."

Butter is almost all fat, not a "protein item." And definitely not something I'd add to my garden...

>> ... along with other things that AREN’T good for your plants.

I agree that we don't want to fertilize using something with perfume or hand lotion or coloring agents. But I'm not sure HOW toxic those additives are to plants, especially after being diluted another 5-10 times more dilute than they were in the household cleaning product to start with.

>> Most household ammonias can actually be toxic to plants,
>> containing aqueus ammonia instead of the helpful ammonia ions.

I don't totally agree. Toxicity from ammonia comes from adding too much ammonia. That's true with most high-N fertilizers. Nutrient or poison: the dose makes the poison.

Would you agree? Or am I missing something?

It's the same with food for humans: enough is necessary, but too much is harmful.

I take a blood thinner: enough is necessary, or I'll start throwing clots and have embolisms and leg problems. But too much, and I have to remember that the other name for "coumadin" is "warfarin" - a.k.a. "rat poison". The dose makes the poison.

Someone is developing a weeding robot that has a little needle. Once its vision system and tiny brain are fairly sure they have identified a weed that is NOT the crop plant being grown intentionally, the robot injects a little "concentrated fertilizer" into the weed's stem, which kills it promptly.

The dilution of spreading through the weed's tissue, and then diffusing into the soil as the weed decomposes, makes it NON-toxic due to dilution. My guess is that the concentrated "fertilizer/poison" is either ammonia or urea. It might be phosphoric acid in a basic-soil region. Maybe KOH (potassium hydroxide) in a very acid-soil region.

The overall pH of the soil after adding ammonia affects the ratio of those two forms, since they stay in equilibrium with each other. But toxicity comes mostly from excessive concentration, and only after that, is pH relevant as a secondary factor.

Probably neutral NH3 is somewhat less toxic to cells than ammonium ion , because it is taken up more slowly and tends to evaporate from soil and water. But I'm not sure. Neither is toxic in low doses - a little ammonia is beneficial and indeed is part of the natural Nitrogen Cycle. Both are toxic at high doses, in part because they transform back and forth freely.

I think the time for them to reach equilibrium with each other is just a few milliseconds (or microseconds if they don't have to diffuse a distance to reach each other) (whereas it may take hours or days for plants and microbes to take up all the ammonia (ionic form first)).

The pH of the soil or water you add to it does, of course, affect the ratio of neutral ammonia (NH3) and ammonium ion (NH4+). If you add it too basic, or add it to very basic soil, you will have more neutral ammonia (NH3) than you wanted, because that neutral ammonia will rapidly evaporate from the soil or water.

Plants can (I assume) only absorb the ionic form (NH4+), but pH reactions between soluble molecules like NH3 and H2O occur in milliseconds, so as plants and microbes rapidly absorb NH4+, enough of the remaining neutral NH3 will convert to NH4+ to keep the ratio at whatever point the soil pH dictates.

If you add enough diluted ammonia to actually change the pH of your soil, you should be careful to add it in basic or acid form according to which way you want to change your soil pH. However, the basic form of ammonia (NH3) does evaporate very rapidly, so stick to ag lime if you want to make soil more basic.

>> aqueus ammonia instead of the helpful ammonia ions.

Offhand I'm not sure which form of ammonia is more likely to form tight hydrogen bonds with water, but I am guessing the positively charged ion because it attracts the partial-negative-charge on the O in H2O.

NH4+ plus H20 - - > NH5O+

H H
\ /
+N - - - OH2
/ \
H H

Corey, where can I get me one of those weeding robots ? (asked the woman who spent half the day weeding...)

Right after they finish inventing it, then decreasing it's cost by a factor of 100, THEN AFTER I buy the first one!

(Said Rick, who has accomplished nothing but weeding his beds this year, and still is not caught up!)

I guess I'd better sharpen the hoe up....

Dynamite is good, too.

I just watched an episode of "Gardening: Australia" on slugs. While this is a 100% organic/permaculture series, one of the gardeners advises using 1 part espresso to 5 parts water in a spray bottle and spray the plants and ground and slugs if they're conveniently nearby. Supposedly caffeine is poisonous to slugs.

You could also put a LOT of used grounds in a moderate amount of water, then let them sit in the sun, like "solar tea". That should extract some more caffeine, or whatever compounds ARE toxic or repellant to slugs.

That's a great idea, Rick.

I got it from someone else on ATP who uses "solar used coffee" to repel many kinds of insects.

Was that Ken (DrDawg)?

Gosh - wonder if it works on Japanese beetles. The invasion should start in a couple more weeks.

They start in here July 3, sometimes as early as June 30.

I absolutely hate those things, mainly because I'm OCD about pests chomping on my babies.

RickCorey said:Have you tried drenching the soil around your hostas with diluted household ammonia? Aim for 1-2% ammonia. This also kills eggs.

"Household ammonia ranges in concentration by weight from 5 to 10% ammonia."

So dilute that by 5 times or ten times:
5-10% divided by 5-10 = 1-2% by weight, effective on slugs & eggs

If you start with something lacking perfume, ammonia is pure fertilizer and used as such by some farmers. After the slugs have had time to die, you might water the area you sprayed, to dilute the ammonia further and wash it deeper into the soil where it won;t evaporate and be lost.

It might be wise to wash off the leaves of delicate plants if you hit them with 2% or stronger ammonia. Maybe with a hose sprayer on "mist". Many plant leaves don't mind being sprayed with 1% ammonia or weaker (according to what I've read on the Internet).

It's also a way to kill them if you're squeamish. Adjust the sprayer to "jet" and shoot them from a distance. Put out cardboard or wood planks at night. Slugs will collect under it. Int he morning, flip the board or cardboard voer and spray the slugs you see.

Copied and saved, thanks for that! Haven't had any slug problems, although I did see a couple of them on the underside of a wood pallet I moved yesterday, but so far they've stayed away from plantings. I'm wondering if it's because of a pair of ducks we see now and then. I saw the male about a couple weeks ago just wondering around in the front yard, and the female about a week ago in the creek.

Shadegardener said:Gosh - wonder if it works on Japanese beetles. The invasion should start in a couple more weeks.

In my experiences I always battled these dudes on my roses, here at my new house I barely get them on my roses because
they just adore my neighbor`s green grapes plant, that thing gets loaded!!!! It is on my fence so I get a bucket of water and tap
the leaves and get a whole lot that way just to make sure they stay away! So, plant a grape plant to keep them off your prized
plants!

Grape leaves seem to be a favorite,I have a wild grape along the fence line near the garden that is there for just that reason.