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Avatar for hazelnut
Feb 5, 2016 12:41 AM CST
Thread OP

Charter ATP Member
I was wondering if it was worth buying the Eliot Coleman broadfork. I have sandy loam soil. I really dont want to turn it over and disturb the structure--and it is easy enough to dig with my cut off archaeology shovel if I really need to. I guess I can save the money. I have enough weeds annually, to take care of areation.
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Feb 5, 2016 1:32 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
>> sandy loam soil.

That sounds like it would stay pretty well aerated even without much poking and fluffing. Does it get comapcted over a period of years?

I've never read anything very technical about "no till" practices, but I have a bias against any policy that starts "NEVER ..."

From what I understand of "no till" theories, most of the value would be gained by simply tilling much less frequently. If it takes a soil 3 years to compact excessively, one deep turning every 4-5 years might be much better for the roots than NEVER turning it, even if that meant it was dense-like-a-rock 8 inches down.

But really: I have ZERO clue what managing sandy loam would be like.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Feb 5, 2016 3:52 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Instead of zone envy, Rick has dirt envy. Smiling
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Feb 5, 2016 8:10 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Avatar for hazelnut
Feb 6, 2016 5:56 PM CST
Thread OP

Charter ATP Member
My sandy loam does'nt really get compacted, well the only traffic is me and my dogs. my main problem is woody weeds: ivy, wisteria, tree seedlings. So far what works for that problem is to shovel skim the vegetation, and get down as much cardboard as I can find.
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Feb 8, 2016 7:19 AM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Cindy,
I have one maple tree and those usually go on the compost pile. The other three trees are walnut....
I have a gardening friend in Long Island who buys the pine needles and they look so nice.
I see poison ivy has started in the tree line across the road. I pray it doesn't start over here. There is also poison sumac vine over there. Ask me how I know that, twice....

Rick,
I've seen those forks. My husband would kill me if I got another tool. I have a garage full of them already :o)
No till seems good for fields, but I have to turn some garden over just to incorporate weeds, or because I've compacted where I want to plant.

Quite a few years ago the garden got over run with quick grass. I never took pictures, but I dug the entire thing to remove every root. I had piles of dirt before I threw it back. I'm sure it took years for it to settle back. I also removed every rock, broken pottery and glass shard. I only found two treasures.
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Feb 8, 2016 8:44 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I'm not sure if I've ever seen poison sumac. Is the rash as bad as poison ivy?
The quick grass eradication must have been a real pain. DD had Bermuda grass in TN and it was a real thug to keep out of the garden.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Feb 8, 2016 12:06 PM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Cindy,
On me, poison ivy spreads. Sumac is as bad but seems to stay localized. It starts with three itch bumps in a row. That's the clue DH and I have that we got into it. I imagine it's the vine contact leaving it in a row. And it itches and has a yellow ooze. First time I had it it was so bad I had to wrap my arm in cotton gauze batting. The batting must have been 20 years old but it was exactly what I needed. Twice I've gone to the State Fair with a wrapped arm. Not as bad as the first time tho.
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Feb 8, 2016 12:24 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Wow - it sounds like you have a severe allergy to the poison sumac. My dad would get poison ivy that bad. When he was in the air force, he got it to where it was oozing and had to wrap his extremities in plastic wrap to keep his uniform clean. I can't imagine how miserable that would have been. For me, PI only spreads where I touch my skin before washing it off. First time was a nightmare because I didn't know I was in an area of bare stems in the winter.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Feb 8, 2016 12:27 PM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Both my maternal grandparents could pull it and not have a problem. My Dad doesn't have it spread much. His Mom howerver... Two of my cousins and I get it terrible. They used to get shots. I just try to stay out of it...

The last time DH and I both had it was when working on his sister's cellar door. It was growing alongside it. I pulled it because it was in the way, saw 5 leaves and thought Virginia Creeper. Nope.
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Mar 21, 2016 1:54 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Woo-hoo - I got about 400 sq ft of garden beds remineralized 10 days ago and letting the good stuff go to work before it's time to plant. Waiting on some more feather meal to come this week to do a few more beds. I wonder if I'll see a difference in plant growth now.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Mar 22, 2016 5:41 AM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Cindy,
Awesome! I found an old old bag of apple tree fertilizer, put it in a tub and sprinkled it on the asparagus beds.
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Mar 22, 2016 7:47 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Neat-o! Are asparagus heavy feeders? When will you get your first spears?
More garden bed clearing today so that I can put down some minerals next week. These areas are subject to a lot of run-off or leaching due to being at the edges of some slopes. Once the minerals are dug in, I'll mulch with shredded leaves.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Mar 22, 2016 10:01 AM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Cindy,
They are, and I think they need more water than they get too.
Late April is usually when we start seeing the spears and early May we start snapping.

Isn't it great to get out and get started?
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Mar 22, 2016 11:03 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
It is great to be outside! I think we're lucky that it's been nice so early this year - otherwise, I'd be climbing the walls.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
Avatar for hazelnut
Mar 22, 2016 4:44 PM CST
Thread OP

Charter ATP Member
I just got back from Lowes. (I go into town --tuscaloosa--about once every 3 months). I was looking for fertilizer to give some scragely plants a quick start. I found one little section of fertilizer in with the garden supplies. There were 2 full aisles of weed killer.
It would seem killing is more important than growing -- at Lowes any way.

Digging the garden beds. I live on a historic property about 120 years old. There was a little boy who lived here about 75 years ago. What I find in the garden when I dig is marbles!
He also developed his own film--and painted all the windows black in his room!
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Mar 23, 2016 7:00 AM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Cindy,
Spring is my favorite season so I better die in the early winter, lol! If the sun is shining and it's nice, I have to go outside. There's a whole world out there even in my own yard.

Hazelnut,
We couldn't find any hornet spray at Menard's. Just ant sprays. Seriously??? I only have regular ants... I couldn't find big bags of borer control for the iris either. I'll have to use small ones. I have a lot of iris.
So cool to live on such old property. Marbles here too. All kinds of clay and a few others. What a neat kid!
A small town has no secrets except itself
Avatar for Shadegardener
Mar 23, 2016 8:36 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
hazelnut - I've given up on the big box stores for finding anything other than chemicals of all types. I have a couple of garden centers each about 15 to 20 miles away where I can find some amendments but most of my remineralization ingredients had to be shipped in. Happily, my small local place has started carrying Happy Frog potting soil so I'm good for those spontaneous soil runs. Neat about the marbles! What's the soil like on your property? Some older homes have the best dirt around here.
I agree with you, Sally - spring is my favorite season but generally when we're past the possibility of getting snow. Smiling
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
Image
Mar 23, 2016 12:22 PM CST
Name: Sally
Nichols, iowa (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Vegetable Grower Peonies Lilies
Irises Region: Iowa Dog Lover Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies
Happy Frog. I've never heard of it.
A small town has no secrets except itself

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