Plant ID forum: Bladderpod (Glottidium vesicarium); for confirmation

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Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Aug 11, 2015 11:42 AM CST
@frostweed I have cattle so I want to be sure of the identity here. I found it as Sesbania vesicaria in the net search, but the database says that is a synonym for Glottidium vesicarium. Here are some photos.

a pod and beans from last year that I didn't plant.

sprouted beans

Thumb of 2015-08-11/needrain/e91c27 juvenile plant

plant that is beginning to bloom - about 7' tall

the blooms, which I find attractive.

I think it's made a nice ornamental plant, especially in the situation where I'm growing it. I may save and plant beans again because of that. But if the identity is correct, or probably even if I've got the correct plant family, it's not such a good thing in the pasture. It grows in a very limited way here staying confined to the dry river bed in dry years, so there are no plants this year because the river ran too often with the rain we've had. Normally, though there are a few plants. The quote from the following website will explain why I want it identified, I think.

http://essmextension.tamu.edu/plants/plant/bag-pod-sesbania/
Toxic Agent
Bag-pod sesbania contains sesbaimide, which is concentrated in the seed. Fresh green plants are unpalatable; only the mature dry seedpods and seeds are consumed. Animals pastured with the plant during the growing season are seldom poisoned, but naïve ruminants, especially goats and cattle, are often poisoned when they are introduced to the dried plants in the fall and winter. Clinical observations indicate that newly mature seeds are more toxic than those that have weathered on the plant. The seeds of bag-pod sesbania (S. vesicaria) seem to be more toxic than those of sennabean (S. drummondii).

Signs of Livestock Ingestion
Signs of poisoning occur within 1 or 2 days after consumption and can include: depression, diarrhea, Weakness, Rapid heart rate, Labored breathing, and Death.

Death quickly follows the onset of clinical signs, which in many cases go unobserved. Seeds and/or seed fragments are routinely found in the rumen contents of animals that die from eating this plant.

Donald
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
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frostweed
Aug 11, 2015 12:01 PM CST
Hello Donald, Yes that is Sesbania vesicaria indeed, Glottidium is a synonym, see link;
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=SEVE
I like the plant also, but it would be good to keep it away from live stock. Smiling
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Aug 11, 2015 3:49 PM CST
Thank you, Josephine. The ATP database has Sesbania as a synonym. Who can verify which is correct? I never know where to go to ask this question!! I'm assuming there is conflicting information among authorities.
Donald
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover Xeriscape
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frostweed
Aug 11, 2015 7:59 PM CST
I can't quite figure out what they mean, but here is another link, maybe someone else can help with this, Smiling
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
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KentPfeiffer
Aug 11, 2015 8:58 PM CST

Moderator

needrain said:Thank you, Josephine. The ATP database has Sesbania as a synonym. Who can verify which is correct? I never know where to go to ask this question!! I'm assuming there is conflicting information among authorities.


Which is "correct" depends entirely on which taxonomist you choose to believe. Smiling For a database as comprehensive as the one at ATP, you really just have to pick a source and stick with it. Otherwise, it quickly turns into a chaotic mess. For wild plants, we've chosen to use the Catalog of Life as our primary source. It's one of the few that is both easily accessible and kept reasonably up to date.

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Aug 11, 2015 9:25 PM CST
If this Sesbania is the same as what we call Rattlebox, it grows along a ditch in one of our pastures. The cows and horses don't touch it.
Porkpal
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
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Horntoad
Aug 11, 2015 9:38 PM CST
porkpal said:If this Sesbania is the same as what we call Rattlebox, it grows along a ditch in one of our pastures. The cows and horses don't touch it.



That is probably
Rattlebox (Sesbania drummondii)
wildflowersoftexas.com
texasnatureonline.com


Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
Image
needrain
Aug 11, 2015 10:04 PM CST
@porkpal there are a lot of similar plants, many are shrubby and a few, like this one, are annuals. I think nearly all of them are toxic to some degree or another to cattle. I think in this case the danger occurs when forage is poor and they eat the mature bean pods. It's sort of a circumstantial thing and not very common. Our drought corresponded with an increase in the number of these plants since they primarily grow in the dry river bed. Drought also results in poor forage which is exacerbated by the onset of winter and that leaves the mature pods exposed at the worst possible time. Toxic plant poisoning in livestock happens more often than people realize. It occurs especially in cattle when they are relocated to an unfamiliar grazing area with a different set of plants. I was pretty sure I would find this plant toxic for cattle, so I want to be aware. A lot of times an apparently healthy animal will die unexpectedly for unknown reasons. As the quote from the web page I quoted above says, the early symptoms are often not observed. Cattle are domesticated animals, but they aren't usually pets and close observation as with a pet doesn't usually happen. I'm not overly concerned, but I want the knowledge if it's available. Prussic acid poisoning, which is Hydrogen cyanide (HCN), is probably the most common one here usually from Johnson grass. It's very quick and very lethal. In wet years clover causes pasture bloat and that is also common here.
Donald

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