Lilies forum: Johan Groot doubles

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Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
Dec 15, 2010 11:03 AM CST

Gone But Not Forgotten

I just received this printout from one of my lily suppliers.

http://www.yamaki-noen.co.jp/data/nl10_po.pdf

The pictures, of course, are lovely. But do the doubles look like that, really?

Any comments on these lilies? Love them, hate them?
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 12:47 PM CST

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Some of the doubles are better than other, for sure. I bought a double last year, 'Broken Heart' that came up year one virused last summer. It was obvious in the coloration. I don't think many of them are that full, fluffy double, at least not with my experience here. The fluffier one I can say is Double Vision , also sold as Candy Floss I believe. The earlier introduction of one Ramona had with Exotic Butterfly, I thought was the best of that series. I don't know if what is listed there is one of those. It might be too hot here to get that vibrant color that some of the pictures show. But unless these are advancements from the original doubles, I would say that they are not all that fantastic. The many names that they have all had only confuses me further and dampens the likelihood that I will be getting many of them anymore. But any dark cold day in the Midwest, I won't say that I "never" will. Weak moments happen...Lol.

Tracey
Name: Barbara
North Pole, Alaska
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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chocolatemoose
Dec 15, 2010 12:51 PM CST
I'd be interested in other peoples comments re: Doubles. I haven't had any from the supplier above, but over the past two years have had 6 different doubles from several reputable vendors (one I even purchased a pack of 3, which I rarely do). I have yet to have one successfully bloom. Most aborted early in the bud stage. My three bulbs of Davyd grew beautiful plants (4'), full of nice sized buds. Two buds opened deformed (not double, but deformed), the others just sat on the plant for three months and slowly withered without ever opening.
I'm not keen on the doubles, as they don't look like lilies to me. If they were called something else, I'd be okay...LOL, but lilies are supposed to have 6 petals. My DH kept asking me to get a few doubles, but I won't waste any more $$$ on them this year...Anybody else having success?
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
Dec 15, 2010 5:10 PM CST

Gone But Not Forgotten

Thanks for the information. I am iffy about them anyway. So any and all knowlege of them I can get is helping.

If they looked like the pictures they would be a good seller for my nursery (not online), but if they had bud abort, or didn't look fluffy, I doubt they would go over well.
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
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pardalinum
Dec 15, 2010 6:15 PM CST

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These are all double Oriental lilies. That said, I have never grown any of them. My antipathy dates back to when Miss Lucy came out and the reports that it did not open well in the PNW. But they must be popular since the breeders have come out with so many of them now.

I suspect all the "models" for the breeders' photographs are greenhouse grown where temperature and humidity are carefully controlled for perfect opening. Kind of like all those Mak orientals I photographed in his greenhouse a few years back.

Come summer it would be nice to have a thread dedicated to double lilies. This would be a thread for those who grow them to post pictures and comments. We just need to remember to start it when the time comes Smiling .
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 6:26 PM CST

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Here's a few for starters:

This was my favorite full one that Ramona offered several years back, 'Lady Liss'
Thumb of 2010-12-16/magnolialover/73f613
Tracey
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 6:27 PM CST

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Lady AnnabelleThumb of 2010-12-16/magnolialover/4e9558

This one sort of petered out over time.
Tracey
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 6:29 PM CST

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This one was Lady Jayne. She had a couple nice blooms, but even high shade aborted some blossoms the way Barbara described.Thumb of 2010-12-16/magnolialover/88d927
Tracey
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 6:30 PM CST

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I wish I had a better picture of 'Double Vision', it has been in the garden two years and has held up nicely so far. It gets east exposure so it is protected from the hottest portion of the day's sun.Thumb of 2010-12-16/magnolialover/cac90e
Tracey
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
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magnolialover
Dec 15, 2010 6:32 PM CST

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My favorite of all doubles is none other than our dear Lisa Hunt (Buggy Crazy). Her 'Luxurious' has huge blossoms and has been a consistent performer since I got her several years ago.
Tracey
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
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pardalinum
Dec 15, 2010 7:28 PM CST

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It looks like they, for the most part, open well for you mags. I wonder if the really fluffy ones open as well under ordinary garden conditions. That is, when the last petals in the center open are the first petals that opened just as fresh looking. You would think that these fluffies would take a considerable amount of time to completely open, at which time the first ones would be rather old...
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
Dec 15, 2010 7:38 PM CST

Gone But Not Forgotten

Well, those are all lovely.

Good point, Pard. Is it going to show brown outer petals on the flowers.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Dec 16, 2010 10:48 AM CST
At least some of the doubles are very dependent on how well they are grown, and their growing conditions, as has been alluded to here. The old cultivar ,Fata Morgana, is quite stunning in its best form, but the exact same plant in another year may only have a few extra petals, and looking as if it is deformed.

Barbara, in Alaska I speculate that the summers are not long enough, and the flower buds not far enough developed within the bulb by spring, and/or the growing season temps are too cool for further adequate development.

For me, part of the allure of lilies is their symmetry. That's something completely lost with most doubles.

Name: Barbara
North Pole, Alaska
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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chocolatemoose
Dec 16, 2010 2:35 PM CST
Rick...Your speculations may be correct. The doubles may need just that little extra the others don't require, as they are the only ones I consistently have issues with. My lily world will be fine without them.
Re: "part of the allure of lilies is their symmetry. That's something completely lost with most doubles"...ditto
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
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magnolialover
Dec 16, 2010 2:57 PM CST

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Call me a lily nut. I love the doubles, especially when they are so fully opened and fluffy. I've loved the looks of them since I first set my eyes on them. I now just understand that there will be times that they disappoint, and I can live with that. Most of my other lilies do not disappoint. Did I mention that I just love lilies? *Blush*
Tracey
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Dec 16, 2010 11:43 PM CST
Tracey, we are all lily nuts, and the world would be pretty boring if we all liked the same thing.

Aphrodite hosta (a double plantaginea type) always had issues with me. It is a hose-in-hose form, where it has an extra set of six petals that emerge inside the first set, giving it a two layer look. For many years, I really liked it, because the second set of six petals never fully developed (I found out), and sometimes never even completely opened. The smaller set or almost bud form in the center was quite pleasing. Then one year it grew like it was suppose to, and yuck!
Name: Barbara
North Pole, Alaska
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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chocolatemoose
Dec 17, 2010 12:28 AM CST
Re: Then one year it grew like it was suppose to, and yuck! Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff
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PollyK
Dec 18, 2010 10:05 PM CST

Gone But Not Forgotten

Thank you all for your input.

I have decided to try a very few of the doubles and see how they sell. Most sell in bloom anyway, and who knows how they will do in pots.
Name: Michael Norberry
Arcata, CA Zone 9 or 17 suns (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: California Seed Starter Ponds
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mnorberry
Feb 6, 2011 3:15 PM CST
This is the only double I had blooming last year.Thumb of 2011-02-06/mnorberry/3de715
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff
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PollyK
Feb 6, 2011 5:08 PM CST

Gone But Not Forgotten

Pretty! Do you know which one it is?

I finally decided on Distant Drum, Polar Star, and a double mix.

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