Daylilies forum: Volcan Fuego (Mahieu, 2003) OR Hemerocallis hakuunensis

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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Oct 28, 2015 2:11 PM CST
Has anyone ever had rebloom on this cultivar?

Has anyone ever had rebloom on Hemerocallis hakuunensis?
Maurice
Name: Peter
Allentown PA (Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Seed Starter Greenhouse Bee Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Pollen collector
Hybridizer Region: Pennsylvania Daylilies Vegetable Grower
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Nysbadmk8
Oct 29, 2015 7:11 AM CST
The combination of both of those being ML or L and your zone 4 garden, I doubt you will see any rebloom.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Oct 29, 2015 9:02 AM CST
Nysbadmk8 said:The combination of both of those being ML or L and your zone 4 garden, I doubt you will see any rebloom.

I'm not actually looking for either one to rebloom in my garden. I am interested in finding a daylily species or F1 hybrid that cannot rebloom under any conditions or in any location. The information I have currently suggests that all daylilies can rebloom under the appropriate growing conditions.
Maurice
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
I helped beta test the first seed swap
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DogsNDaylilies
Oct 29, 2015 9:04 AM CST
admmad said:
I'm not actually looking for either one to rebloom in my garden. I am interested in finding a daylily species or F1 hybrid that cannot rebloom under any conditions or in any location. The information I have currently suggests that all daylilies can rebloom under the appropriate growing conditions.


Or of burning curiosity. ..why? Big Grin
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Oct 29, 2015 9:33 AM CST
DogsNDaylilies said:Or of burning curiosity. ..why?

Exactly - curiosity to learn. Smiling

Some scientific research recently published about flowering and dormancy in a different plant species suggests that the two characteristics are biologically related. It is possible that if a plant has the genetic ability to rebloom that its ability to go dormant in a particular way is affected.

My observations suggest that no daylily goes dormant in a particular way (called endodormant - a plant that is endodormant usually must experience a certain amount of cold to be able to grow again). It also seems as if all daylilies can rebloom. The two characteristics also seem to be related in daylilies. That suggests that it might be that daylilies that cannot rebloom might be able to become endodormant. Inquiring minds (mine) would like to know. Smiling

Maurice
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Dec 29, 2015 2:42 PM CST
none of mine rebloomed, but I guess it's not the answer you are looking for! Hilarious!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
I helped beta test the first seed swap
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DogsNDaylilies
Jan 4, 2016 6:52 AM CST
Maurice, did you happen to get any further with your inquiry into this? It's a study that would be interesting to know the results of, even if it is done as a casual study.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 4, 2016 9:41 AM CST
I have no information on the reblooming ability of either Hemerocallis hakuunensis or Volcan Fuego - so to that extent I am no further on.

Each autumn I bring inside any daylily that has been suggested to be endodormant (need to experience a period of cold to start growing again); I have yet to find any that do not grow once they are brought inside and given appropriate growing conditions. Originally I brought them inside in mid-October. Plants I have brought inside between then and the end of December have all started to grow relatively quickly.

The information I have about rebloom in daylilies indicates that nearly all daylilies rebloom in the appropriate growing conditions either in locations in California or in locations in Florida.

The current information I have is that some seedlings that have never experienced growing conditions that would signal them to stop growing/go dormant do stop growing but then after some period of time they start to grow again without any change in their growing conditions.

Other information I have is that there are some seedlings that never experience cold but do experience the condition most likely used to signal that they should go dormant (short days-long nights) and they do stop growing but after some period of time they start growing again without experiencing any cold.
There are also some seedlings that never experience cold, do experience short days, stop growing and do not start growing again for quite a long time. Those might be possible candidates for daylilies that can use a period of cold to start growing again. However, they clearly do not have a mandatory requirement to experience cold to grow again.
Stout made observations that suggested that Hemerocallis middendorffii might be a daylily that required a period of cold to start growing again (be endodormant in the autumn). The plant I had purchased as middendorffii did not require cold to grow and did not behave in the same way when growing inside as Stout found. It may not be middendorffii. I have another plant of middendorffii from a different supplier on order for delivery this spring to try again.
It may be that true classical endodormancy was infrequent in daylilies even originally and that daylilies have since been bred to have even less.
Or it may be that daylilies have never needed to experience cold temperatures to start growing again, only cool temperatures, such as say below 50F (10C) and that they experience those early in the autumn or that they only need a very short period of cool temperatures. This year I will test some plants in late August and early September by bringing them inside and giving them the appropriate growing conditions.
I have Stella and Tetrina's Daughter growing inside now. In a few weeks I may try giving them short days to see if I can force them into dormancy and then if they do go dormant I will try to get them to grow again (without experiencing even 50F temperatures) by giving them long days. Stella is one of the cultivars described as not surviving for very long in Florida. The assumption is that it needs to experience a period of cold to grow or bloom. However there is another possible explanation for why Stella may not survive for long under Florida conditions and that is poor growth due to stress caused by long periods of high temperatures. Researchers have found that Stella did not require cold to grow or bloom.
Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Jan 4, 2016 1:42 PM (+)]
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Name: Rob Laffin
Mariaville, Maine (Zone 4b)
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RobLaffin
Jan 4, 2016 5:31 PM CST
I will be very interested to hear what you find, Maurice. I have (and love) both Volcan Fuego and H. Hakuunensis. As others have noted, they're both late blooming anyway, and I have never seen any rebloom. This fall was very warm very late (although puntuated by a couple of early frosts), but still I did not have any rebloom on these two, though I had quite a bit on other unusual suspects.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 4, 2016 6:06 PM CST
@roblaffin
How do 'Volcan Fuego' and H. hakuunensis grow for you? - good increase? How late do they bloom for you? Would you classify them as 'dormants' or 'non-dormants' during your winter?
Maurice
Name: Rob Laffin
Mariaville, Maine (Zone 4b)
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RobLaffin
Jan 4, 2016 6:32 PM CST
Maurice,
They grow GREAT. I told someone who was scouting for Oakes Daylilies that I couldn't believe everyone didn't want a piece of Volcan Fuego. Such a great color - as you know, it's a cross of H. Hak x Burning Daylight from the 1950s and BD, with its barely perceptible paprika red really makes this glow. Plus it has H. Hak's phenomenal (5-6-way) branching, and bud counts (25-40). I have quite a few of Brian Mahieu's plants, and this is by far the best performer.
The pic below of Volcan Fuego was taken August 14, 2014. I originally got this as a DF in 2012. Plus, I had sold some out of it before this pic was taken. You can see it still has quite a few buds, and goes well into September. It's always a trick to get ripe pods off it before the weather gets too cold.
The pic of H. Hakuunensis was taken on September 2, 2015. It blooms right til late September. (My peak bloom is roughly third week of July through first or second week of August.)This started with probably 6 clumps of 4F each in 2013. It increases very well, I'm always selling clumps out of it and it comes right back. I've counted seven branches and 50 buds on some scapes. Also, BTW, it sets bee pods like crazy. Query whether the bees are pollenating it with itself and it lacks the incompatibility rejection mechanism, or whether the bees are bringing pollen from other plants.
They're both fully dormant here.

VOLCAN FUEGO:

Thumb of 2016-01-05/RobLaffin/7cebb9

H. Hakuunensis:


Thumb of 2016-01-05/RobLaffin/43c0de

Just FYI, here's BURNING DAYLIGHT - really glows in the garden. This was taken Sept 10, but it was one of the very last blooms (or maybe even a rebloom; I don't remember):

Thumb of 2016-01-05/RobLaffin/427169

Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 5, 2016 8:52 AM CST
Query whether the bees are pollenating it with itself and it lacks the incompatibility rejection mechanism, or whether the bees are bringing pollen from other plants.

It could be that it is self-compatible; at least some H. minor plants are self-compatible. So the pods could be from self-pollinations. Or they could be natural cross-pollinations. Or they could be a mixture of both.
However, since it does often set pods naturally that means that all cultivars registered with H. hakuunensis as the pod parent have a substantial chance of not being from the named pollen parent. That is, unless the hybridizer took precautions to prevent natural pollinations.
Maurice

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