Ha. We went from a house with one bathroom to one that now has 4. Life is good.

And, grrr, couldn't find the pepper seeds I wanted today, so I had to order them. Grrr...
Hope it's not too late when they get here. I started some 2/7 and none have come up yet. But they do take longer than the tomatoes.

Four bathrooms?? Who gets to wash them all?

Are they hot peppers? They need heat to germinate. Lots of heat. I am in 'list making' mode. I won't start anything before April 1st (unless I have some sort of manic seed planting attack). I am working out what seed to order and what's left over from last year.

We haven't sold our house in CA yet. We have an Ume tree in the yard. My husband is visualizing one more batch of umeboshi before we list the house this spring. That means I have to grow a LOT of red shiso. Last year, I had a complete shiso crop failure. I made 20 gallons of Ume-boozo (plum wine) instead. Happy Japanese relatives - not so happy Hubby.

I bought some okra from the Aisian grocery yesterday. Yum-yum! MUST order okra. Have you ever heard of Kitazawa? My father in law worked with Mr. Kitazawa back in the 1930's at my father-in-law's father's nursery in Oakland. My father-in-law is 103 so I suspect the original Mr. Kitazawa is no longer with us. But their seeds are incredible.

https://www.google.com/search?...

Happy planting! I LOVE this time of year.

Daisy

RickCorey said:

I tried to say "Get the mix moist BEFORE pushing seeds in. Cotton flannel under a seedling tray makes it easier to bottom-water, but I also top-water occasionally. Many commercial seed-starting mixes benefit from adding coarse things like Perlite, grit or bark."

LOL, Rick -- one more thing that we do differently! I fill my cell-packs with potting mix, pack it down a little (by pushing a small stack of the same kind of cell-packs down onto it), put the seeds on top and then cover lightly with a little more potting mix -- except for larger seeds I make a small hole in the cell to drop the seed in instead of putting it on top, and for extremely tiny seeds I don't cover them. Then I take the flat to the kitchen sink and use the pull-out faucet sprayer to gently wet the top of the packs and settle the seeds in, and then just run water into the flat itself (by removing one of the packs) to a depth of half an inch or so (obviously I use flats without drainage holes), which will be absorbed from the bottom. Exception: for the extremely tiny seeds I just mist thoroughly with a spray bottle. Top it off with a humidity dome and put it on my plant-light shelves and wait for the miracle to happen.

Woofie, when do you plant your peppers outdoors? Mine don't go out until around June 1st, my seeds get started about April 1st. (and again, I may be the only one that does it this way... but I don't give them any particular amount of heat; under my lights they're around 70-74 in the daytime and mid to high 60s at night, without any problems.)

[quote="RickCorey"]

I tried to say "Get the mix moist BEFORE pushing seeds in. Cotton flannel under a seedling tray makes it easier to bottom-water, but I also top-water occasionally. Many commercial seed-starting mixes benefit from adding coarse things like Perlite, grit or bark."

Thanks for the flannel trick for wicking water. I've got loads of fabric to repurpose now!!! I am a newbie with seed starting so all of the tips have been useful. Even got Tea Tree Oil per Trish's podcast tip.😁 I've got loss of babies popping up!

Red Shiso? Umeboshi? Both things I had never heard of and had to look up! Mmmm, that Red shiso sounds good!

Daisy, I totally agree that Kitazawa is great. Great varieties, really detailed descriptions, largish packets and fair prices. I like Tainong Seeds better, because of their large $2 sample packets, but they have less variety than Kitazawa, more focus on market growers, and much less detail in their descriptions.

Sandy, I thought that moistening seedling mix FIRST was one of the "must-do" things that I get right. You just taught me that it's NOT necessary.

ElRanchoNeglecto, I'm glad you can use the flannel trick! What's your junk fabric? Will it resist rotting? I keep meaning to test some felt, but I think I have to aggressively wash sizing out of the felt first. P.S. I like your screen name!

Also, I missed Trish' Tea Tree Oil Tip. Care to enlighten me?


I have 3-4 kinds of Shiso, going back to 2012. Several of them might be identical. If I still have them, would anyone like some for postage? Those seeds are so small they might even be mailable in a first class envelope, without a bubble mailer to protect them.

---
Shiso - Perilla Purple Zi Su - Perilla frutescens - Baker Creek #HB155
Annual. Up to 36" tall. minty-basil in salads & to flavor vinegar & for pink rice

---
Korean Perilla = Korean Shiso 70 days = Perilla frutescens var crispa (2012 Kitazawa #260)
herb: minty basil flavor. warm season annual. best color if warm.
large leaves, bright green on top & light purple underneath.
NEEDS LIGHT to germinate. 68-75°F. emerge 15-30 days. Broadcast or ½" apart, thin to 8-12"

---
Perilla Red, Aka Shiso = Perilla frutescens var crispa 70 days - 2012 Kitazawa #034
Japanese herb (like anise)
refreshing, aromatic, red frilled leaves
edible parts: pinch leaves off bush, sprouts, seeds or microgreens
broadcast or ½" germn. 68-75°F NEEDS LIGHT, thin to 8"

----
Korean Perilla - Beefsteak Plant - Perilla frutescens atropurpurea
warm season annual. resows. An herb like basil. These are pods, not seeds. from TxAggieGal

Ooooh, Rick you are tempting me! Although, I believe the seeds have to be refrigerated for a while before planting, so it may be a bit late to be thinking of trying them this year? Or is it just that they should be refrigerated if you're going to keep them for a while?

I hadn't heard that Perilla / Beefsteak Plant needs cold moist stratification. Tom Clothier says:

Perilla frutescens , beefsteak plant , Ocimum frutescens, P. ocymoides,
Type= an , , sow in light @ 70ºF , 15-30d

So they might take 2-4 weeks just to germinate. But I think the plants like hot weather.

These ATP Plant Database entries had some comments that mention Perilla reseeding aggressively:
Shiso (Perilla frutescens)
Beefsteak Plant (Perilla frutescens var. frutescens)

It wouldn't surprise me if they were short-lived seeds, and I didn't store these with desiccant. And they are getting on in age. But on the bright side, I ran out of most varieties some years ago, so maybe only the less-old ones are still kicking around.

I'll look tonight and see what I have left.

Shiso: All I have ever done is throw the seeds at the backyard and wait. By July, I have dozens of plants. They get about 4 feet tall. The flowers are edible too. Hubby likes pickled Shiso, tempura shiso leaves and hides it in the sushi. I add it to the Umeboshi after its been pickled and dried a bit (the ume' not the shiso). The shiso adds the red color, an added flavor (before that, the umeboshi is salty and sour) and also preserves the mix.

Shiso has a very strong flavor that a lot of people don't like. It also turns into a weed and re-seeds itself freely. I think my crop failure was due to Hubby and the Roundup. Sounds like an old rock band.

Daisy

DaisyI said:Shiso: ...
Shiso has a very strong flavor that a lot of people don't like. It also turns into a weed and re-seeds itself freely. I think my crop failure was due to Hubby and the Roundup. Sounds like an old rock band.
Daisy

"Hubby and the Roundup"!

Or maybe a C&W band?

"We got BOTH kinds: Country AND Western!"

I lost a nice azalea when a new neighbor hired a total idiot to spray Who-Knows-What on Everything In Sight. grumble grumble grumble!

Rick, I would use terry cloth or 100% cotton flannel since pure cotton is hydrophilic. I don't know if felt is a cotton blend or synthetic.

Trish said mixing 5-7 drops, or there abouts, of Tea Tree Oil in a sprayer of water helps with dampening off. Another podcast used garlic in a blender with water then strained as an anti fungal.

My little guys are soooo slow but still alive.

You all DO know that you can buy "real" capillary matting, right? I bought some from HPS this year, but am also still using some that I bought many years ago...

This is what I bought: http://www.hpsseed.com/dp.asp?...

I really like the fact that it came with a thin "cover" material that is supposed to help prevent evaporation and also keep the actual mat cleaner.

Wow. Lots of different approaches here.

I break up most of my "seed starter trays" to 6-packs before starting. Then, I fill the cells with potting mix or "seed starting mix" to 1/4 or 1/2 inch below the top (the "planting depth" for whatever I'm planting). I set those in a tray of water to "bottom water" the mix to near saturation. Then I let the outside of the packs dry, so I can put my masking tape markings on the things. I always mark before I even put the seeds in, so i don't forget. I use my finger to gently pack things a bit and place a couple seeds in each cell. I cover the seeds with seed starting mix to fill the cell (which should be the correct "planting depth") and I use a spray bottle to mist the top mix to get it moist.

This year, I've been "watering" my seed trays with the spray bottle, and I seem to not have as much problems with overwatering. I'm sure I'll figure out how to overwater, even with the spray bottle. I used to use a small watering can with a very small tubular spout (less than an eighth of an inch opening), and that was pretty good for me, but the spray bottle method is working even better.

>> I always mark before I even put the seeds in, so i don't forget.

Yes! I use mini-blind slats cut to 1/2 width, and stick one in each row of a prop tray.

I've also used a spray bottle (to supplement bottom watering).

>> You all DO know that you can buy "real" capillary matting, right?

Yes, but I'm cheap. That link wasn't a bad price, but it was still $2.50 per tray, before shipping and tax.

>> I really like the fact that it came with a thin "cover" material that is supposed to help prevent evaporation and also keep the actual mat cleaner.

I guess they work OK, since professionals use them, but I would worry if the surface was not fuzzy and had no "loft". How would I be sure that the cap mat was in good contact with every cfell, even if the cells only have slits and not large holes?

>> Rick, I would use terry cloth or 100% cotton flannel since pure cotton is hydrophilic

Cotton flannel is what I'll be using until I use that batch up. But several artificial fabrics are also hydrophilic. The cheapest "felt" that I see is made from some recycled plastic, like soda bottles. I've been told that is very water-loving also, but I seem to recall water beading up on some kind of felt. Maybe it is true that you have to "wash the sizing out of it" before felt is water-absorbent again.

Artificial fabric might last longer and be less prone to mold or algae.

Here are the first seedlings that I had come up. I actually germinated these seeds in paper towels on styrofoam plates and planted the seed in soil after germination. I also have some others growing this way: Hollyhock and Zinnia. Not sure if I can keep these going until it is time to plant them out which will be the first part of May but I am going to try.

RickCorey said:Yes! I use mini-blind slats cut to 1/2 width, and stick onea in each row of a prop tray.

Hmmm. Maybe I've finally found a use for "craft sticks."

Many years ago someone gave me a lifetime supply of craft sticks. I think it was a box with a million sticks in it. OK, maybe it was only a few thousand, and it just seems like a million. Perhaps this is something they would be good for.

Wood craft sticks sometimes promote mold, so I dip them in peroxide solution before using them for gardening. I put a hand full in a glass, and pour the peroxide over them, drain and let dry.

gardenglassgems said:Here are the first seedlings that I had come up. I actually germinated these seeds in paper towels on styrofoam plates and planted the seed in soil after germination. I also have some others growing this way: Hollyhock and Zinnia. Not sure if I can keep these going until it is time to plant them out which will be the first part of May but I am going to try.

Jeanne, those look great for your first seedlings! What are the ones in the photo?

By the way, it was very cool to START out using a relatively technical method for starting them: your method is very close to Dr. Deno's approach to fussy perennials and other very hard-to-start seeds. And you got to see the emerging radicle (baby root tip) up close.

Persistent URLs for Dr. Deno's book "Seed Germination, Theory And Practice" and supplements:
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41... (1993)
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41... (1996)
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41... (1998)

If you plan to go all technical and start really hard seeds, Tom Clothier has a lot of focused advice that seems practical. And the best explanation of why warmth may speed up germination, but not always increase the total % germination.

http://tomclothier.hort.net/
especially:
- Seed Germination versus soil Temperature
- Soilless mixes - Sowing techniques
- Damping-Off -- Frequently asked questions


>> What are the ones in the photo?

Salvia & Petunia & Viola should tolerate a long wait under lights. Dave's "Garden Calendar" gives some idea of when to start what indoors for a given location (based on last frost date, I think).

Several cold-tolerant things can be transplanted outdoors Mar 26 - Apr 9 around Lansing, Iowa, unless your micro-climate is colder than average for your ZIP code. ("Warm-weather" crops like eggplant, peppers and tomatoes can't go out that early unless you have a freakishly early, warm Spring.)

http://garden.org/apps/calenda...

>> Not sure if I can keep these going until it is time to plant them out which will be the first part of May but I am going to try.

Yeah, eight or nine weeks is a long time in a seed-starting cell for fast-growing species.

If you have a spot with good light, or "shop lights" you can put close to them, the next question would be whether you're devoted enough to those seedlings to prick them out and pot them up, each seedling into a 4" pot or so.

Or, if those pretty babies are warmth-lovers, you could call them "practice", toss them out, and start more later.

I think that multiple seedlings of many species in one small cell will be very inter-woven and too root-bound in 8 weeks. If they survive the wait, you could plant each cell as one clump.

- Since you probably need to prick them out anyway, maybe the sooner the better.

- Or maybe prick them out soon after they have 1-2 pairs of true leaves, just to give the roots a little while to "beef up" but hopefully not become too inter-woven. (strongly recommended)

- Or use small scissors and cut off all but one seedling in each cell (recommended)

The easiest decision would be to just keep watering them and keep them under lights, but expect them to become rootbound and grumpy before you plant them out. I swear that seedlings read our minds and play tricks on us. If you EXPECT them to become too rootbound, they may move Heaven and Earth to survive well, just to mess with your head.

That may sound crazy, but see whether you agree after a few years of starting seeds indoors!

The really crazy thing would be to harden them off and plant them outside after they get a little rootbound, but while it is still "too cold". Firmly expect and TELL them out loud that you EXPECT them to freeze and be killed. That will maximize your chances of them beating every chill and freeze sent their way.

(It wouldn't hurt to throw some floating row cover or muslin over them to give them a few degrees of warmth protection. And/or plastic film draped over hoops of stiff wire, small PVC pipe, or 1/2" EMT metal conduit. Seal the edges and ends to the ground by heaping a little soil on the plastic. Seal the heat in. Vent it on sunny days. Good practice for when you decided to deliberately "push your zone". But that's pretty advanced and ambitious for your very first batch of seedlings.)

Thanks Rick for your great advice. Those seedlings are 4 O'Clocks. I have never grown them before. I have many things that take up my time so if anything I ignore stuff. But I have been trying really hard to pay attention to these. This is my first greenhouse which is indoors in our garage. I think I will try planting them in individual pots. When you say 4" pots, does that mean 4" in diameter? I do have a shop lite and another really bright light that I plan to set up to put them under. I will take a picture when I get it done. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

>> When you say 4" pots, does that mean 4" in diameter?

Yes, or for square pots, width. really, i just mean "pot them up into something bigger".

Pint tub, quart tub, Solo cup, 3" pot, 4" pot, cut-off 2 liter soda bottle ... whatever's handy but bigger than the little cells.

Sorry to hear you're busy, I have the same problem. For several years I tired to garden, getting around to most tasks a few weeks or months late. The weeds got ahead of me, and now I'm counting the years until retirement.

Seed starting can be a very satisfying hobby! Once you find a groove that's convenient for you and meets the seedlings' needs, it's relatively easy to create a SEA of helathy, happy seedlings. the problem then becomes how to give them all away.

Until you find that groove with good habits, it may take some trail and error. I recall one year when EVERY seed in three or four trays rotted or otherwise failed to emerge for me. Overwatering a mix that was too fine, mainly.

Starting small with a small number of plants was really smart.