Hazelcrestmikeb said:I have a dip registered spider that can't hold its own weight . All the other plants around it are fine.

Well, spiders have spindly legs, Mike!

I used to grow Jan's Twister because it was simply a gorgeous spider/ UNF, and it
would fall over every year unless I staked it. I have also had a couple tets that were
lanky, but as a rule no problem. We often have lows in the upper 30's with highs in
the upper 40's and lower 50's (3 to 13C) and that doesn't seem to be a factor here.
Nikki, I know that you grow a lot of yours in pots, so I am curious to know if other
gardens in your area who plant theirs in the ground have the same problem? I do
know a few people in your general area there in Europe who have similar climates
who don't have a problem with growing dips or tets either one. Do you have yours
in a partly shaded area?

Oh Nikki- I should also have said that I agree with you about some tets not opening
as well as dips, but those are generally the ones that are more heavily ruffled. Dips
generally do not have as much ruffling as some tets, but if you choose cultivars with
fewer ruffles, you will have no problems with them opening.

Sorry Deryll,

Daylilies aren't very widespread in Britain with the exception of the odd old cultivar like Stafford or Frans Hals. I don't know anyone else in Britain who grows them on a personal basis, only have occasional contact with daylily growers in Britain but there are very few of those too.

The national collection of minis and small flowered varieties which are mainly dips are grown in very exposed conditions on the Isle of Wight and are grown in a 'let nature get on with it' approach so doubt very much that they are staked but apart from that I'm afraid that I can't really answer your question.

The whippiest scape I have is on Creature of the Night (dip). But I love the bloom so it stays in my garden.
You can see in this picture just how wimpy it is, but I stake it every year and enjoy the beauty.

The strongest scape in my garden is on Lilac Surprise (tet). Super strong!!

This has been an interesting thread topic. Some lively and thought provoking posts.

I do agree ..... it is usually some of my dips that lean or flop due to thin scapes with flowers too big and heavy to be held upright. Tets are indeed great for many characteristics. Though, in saying that ......I like both and probably grow close to 50% dips and 50% tets in my garden. I like the variety. I mainly grow cultivars that show rust resistance. My choice of cultivars are grown for breeding and for the seasonal show each year.

I think it is a matter of preference for each of us.

I had to go back to check my notes, and I had Creature of the Night for
about 2-3 years, and it was sturdy here with no leaning or staking...???
I had a full mature clump of it, and it actually did quite well. Just wasn't
one of my favorites so I tossed it last year I think. I don't understand why
it might perform better here- - -

Deryll said:I had to go back to check my notes, and I had Creature of the Night for
about 2-3 years, and it was sturdy here with no leaning or staking...???
I had a full mature clump of it, and it actually did quite well. Just wasn't
one of my favorites so I tossed it last year I think. I don't understand why
it might perform better here- - -

Maybe I need to put some fertilizer on it this spring. Milogranite and/or alfalfa pellets. I'll give that a try to see it the scapes get stronger.

petruske said:

Maybe I need to put some fertilizer on it this spring. Milogranite and/or alfalfa pellets. I'll give that a try to see it the scapes get stronger.

Do you know if your soil has adequate potassium?

No, I don't know. I really need to get some soil testing done in my gardens.

I know it isn't real reliable, but are any of those self-test methods worth while? You know, those where you put soil in a jar with water to see the layers of sediment. Or even some sources for home test kits that don't cost an arm and a leg (because I'm sure I need to test many areas).

Milorganite doesn't have any potassium, one analysis I found for alfalfa pellets gave them as 3% K. U of Wisconsin basic soil test is $15 for pH, lime requirement, organic matter, phosphorous (P), and potassium (K). If you have weak scapes I would check to make sure you don't need to add more potassium.

The jar with soil and layers of sediment test tells you your soil texture, whether clayey, sandy, sandy-loam etc. It won't tell you the level nutrients in the soil.

Some of the soil test kits for nutrient levels are better than others. I did find a review of them somewhere once, I can try and find it again if you prefer to go that route over the lab test. The advantage with the lab test is that if you need to add lime (never do that without a soil test) they will tell you how much to apply.

I would think if you only have one cultivar in the garden that has weak scapes, that would be an indication that it was not a nutrition problem thoughout the garden. If you grow other spider dips. and they don't show weak scapes then you might try moving the plant to a different area and see how it performs there, and put a Tet. with strong scapes in the place of 'Creature of The Night'.