Daylilies forum: Rose F. Kennedy Dip

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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 21, 2016 9:29 AM CST
Does Rose F. Kennedy (dip) rebloom?
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
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floota
Mar 21, 2016 9:54 AM CST
The hybridizer lives in MA and he didn't register it as a rebloomer. It doesn't rebloom in my climate ( mid-Atlantic) VA.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 21, 2016 10:12 AM CST
Thanks Julie, that's just what I needed to know.
Will need to cross this one with a plant that does rebloom, and hope
to change that trait in the seedlings. I've noticed in many seedlings
getting the rebloom trait in a situation such as this is fairly easy to get.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Mar 21, 2016 12:52 PM CST
I agree I agree

Betty
Name: Steve Todd
Illinois (Zone 5b)
Region: Illinois Plant and/or Seed Trader Daylilies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Ahead
Mar 21, 2016 4:03 PM CST
The TET conversion did for me.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Mar 21, 2016 6:43 PM CST
Thanks Steve -- Good to know!

Betty
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 21, 2016 6:53 PM CST
Thanks for the input Steve.

One would think if the Tet. conversion rebloomed, that the
dip would bloom perhaps with the right conditions (sufficient
water and fertilizer). I'll certainly give that a try. Actually, I've
added the water and fertilizer once this year. It may be too
early to begin with that, but the daylilies are growing well
so far.
Name: Dot or Dorothy Parker
Fort Worth TX (Zone 8a)
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Ladylovingdove
Mar 22, 2016 11:34 AM CST
It doesn't rebloom for me. I'm in Texas.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 22, 2016 9:18 PM CST
Uh oh, back to square one. This thread has been, for me, a frown, a smile, a frown.
And then, a chuckle regarding a thought of persistence. I'll get a seedling with rebloom traits or die trying.

All input is greatly appreciated.

Betty, do you have either version of this plant?

Thanks so much, Dot.
[Last edited by mistyfog - Mar 23, 2016 9:07 AM (+)]
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Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
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Betja
Mar 23, 2016 10:56 AM CST
Believe it or not, I now have both versions! I've had the dip version for a couple of years and it bloomed for me rather late last year, but I managed to get a few crosses with it; and it's just about my very favorite daylily now! And I really wanted the tet conversion but it was just too expensive for my pocketbook, so I checked around and found that Dan Trimmer had it for a reasonable price for a tet conversion but was sold out. So I wrote him a couple of months ago and asked if I could be put on a waiting list for it -- and believe it or not he responded that he would let me have one of his own plants, and I already have it sitting all potted up on a table! But the foliage is quite small, so it might be a recent conversion -- but I'm excited just to have it even if it doesn't bloom this year!

Here's my dip version -- what a beauty!


Betty
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 23, 2016 1:02 PM CST
What a beauty indeed, Betty. That's a really nice photo of it. I received the dip version last summer but it did not bloom. So, anxiously awaiting the bloom this year.

How very nice of Dan T. to send you one of his own Tet. RFK plants.
The dip I have had impressive growth; so much so that I divided it in half when
moving it from the quarantine area to the main bed a couple of weeks ago.
So, perhaps by next spring, you will have a bunch of blooms to enjoy.
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Mar 23, 2016 5:17 PM CST

Moderator

That is awesome Betty! So happy for you Smiling
Name: Dick Henley
Central Ohio (Zone 6a)
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poplarcreek
Mar 25, 2016 7:24 AM CST
Rose F. Kennedy has been a slow increaser for me - still one fan after planting in the fall of 2014. It is growing in one of my best locations. It has not rebloomed for me.
Dick in Ohio
[Last edited by poplarcreek - Mar 25, 2016 7:25 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Mar 25, 2016 7:36 AM CST
@admmad,
Curious if you have any experience with Rose F. Kennedy not being a re-bloomer. No one has responded saying it has re-bloomed for them.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Mar 25, 2016 9:00 AM CST
Sorry, I do not grow Rose F. Kennedy.

However, if anyone wants to test for the rebloom ability of a cultivar, the first step is patience. The second step is perseverance.

In plants, in general, there is a relationship between the size of the plant and its flowering ability. Typically plants do not flower until they become a certain size or larger. Typically the larger the plant the more flowers. The size of the plant in this respect does not mean the size of the clump but rather the size of the crown of one fan.

To check for rebloom, or for maximum number of buds per scape, height of the scape, etc. one must have as large a crown as possible for your location (weather). Depending on your location and the average size of the cultivar's crown at the start of the treatment it may take more than one year.

So patience is required because the change in flowering may take two years or possibly more.

Perseverance is required because the grower must provide as close to optimum growing conditions as possible for a lengthy time. When I run this sort of test I use liquid fertilizer with high nitrogen.

If a package of soluble fertilizer indicates that x teaspoons of fertilizer in y gallons of water are used every four weeks then that is what would be needed throughout the growing season for up to several years (or until one sees the best response).
Maurice
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
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kidfishing
Mar 25, 2016 9:45 AM CST
RFK in my garden:
I have grown RFK since 2011. It cost what was a small fortune for a daylily at the time, however to my delight, I was sent 6 fans for what I bought as a triple fan. I planted it in two places with 3 fans each. On one clump in the first bloom season, I counted 92 buds and on the other clump, I counted 88 buds. I used the pollen all over the garden and I still have a few hundred RFK kids under evaluation. My first intros from it should be this year. In 2012 I had 14 fans of RFK. So not only did it bloom well, it increased well. I have not had such great increase in any year since, and it has not bloomed as well. It does bloom every year but I have not had it rebloom. I have it in 3 or 4 places now and will give at least one clump some real TLC this year as a test.
Here are a couple of pictures where RFK was showing off in our garden.
Thumb of 2016-03-25/kidfishing/b44647


Thumb of 2016-03-25/kidfishing/95a60f

Terry

Kidfishing
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Mar 25, 2016 10:52 AM CST
Increase (in the number of fans in a clump)

If my memory serves me well, Munson told his daylily helpers that if his clumps were not divided each year then they suffered. I assume that he meant the rate of increase declined as well as both bud counts and rebloom, etc. I also assume that he had an average increase ratio of near 8:1 per year since he grew his daylilies in Florida and that he grew them under near-optimum conditions.

My assumption would be that at clump sizes over 10 fans the fans begin to compete with each other noticeably when analyzed objectively; they probably shade each other a bit and divide fertilizer and water among all the fans, so get about 1/10 each (or less for larger clumps) of what is being provided by the grower.

What do I mean by analyzed objectively?

Have many clumps of cultivar x. Divide them so there are 10 clumps with 10 joined fans each, 10 clumps with 2 joined fans each and say 10 clumps with 5 joined fans each. [It might be possible that reducing the number of clumps to 5 would still provide a good test but I would use 10 or more clumps.] Give all clumps the same measured amount of water and fertilizer at the same times (in other words treat them all identically) for the entire test period. On the same date each year for say three years, count the number of fans in each clump. At the end of three years analyze the results. The test could be done with clumps of single fans but then the distances between fans in each "clump" would have to be measured and be consistent for all clumps.
Maurice
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Mar 25, 2016 9:03 PM CST
Gorgeous photos of RFK, Ashton. Your plants must be very happy
in your garden. I would really love to see something similar in my garden
this season.

Thanks Maurice for all the valuable info for testing for rebloom.
Seems I need to be very particular about what to cross with Rose Kennedy.
This may be the easiest way to get rebloom, albeit only in the offspring.
However, testing for rebloom is an interesting way to go as well.

Certainly a challenge, except if Steve (Thanks Steve) can get rebloom on a tet version,
in zone 5b, I still think the dip version should also. Maurice, am I wrong
about this?
[Last edited by mistyfog - Mar 25, 2016 9:07 PM (+)]
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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Mar 25, 2016 9:55 PM CST
mistyfog said:Certainly a challenge, except if Steve (Thanks Steve) can get rebloom on a tet version,
in zone 5b, I still think the dip version should also. Maurice, am I wrong about this?


No, you should not be wrong. If there are growing conditions that allow the tet version to rebloom then there should be growing conditions that allow the diploid version to rebloom also.

Maurice

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