Texas Gardening forum: Any idea what this is ?

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Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
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froggardener
Apr 26, 2016 8:51 AM CST
I would love for it to be an agarita but I feel it isn't Shrug!

Thumb of 2016-04-26/froggardener/7793d1

Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
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[Last edited by froggardener - Apr 26, 2016 6:33 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1128781 (1)
Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
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froggardener
Apr 26, 2016 4:06 PM CST
@LindaTx8, do you have Agarita on your property? If so, do you have lil seedlings now?
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Apr 26, 2016 7:50 PM CST
At this point the leaves look quite different from Agarita.
Porkpal
Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
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froggardener
Apr 26, 2016 8:36 PM CST
Yeah, they do . I just want one so bad, nodding
Thanks for replying
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
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Horntoad
Apr 26, 2016 8:59 PM CST
You have to remember seedling leaves very often look nothing like adult leaves. I grow a variety of Hibiscus with various shaped leaves but the young leaves look very similar to each other, but get their true shapes much later. Those sharp points on your sure could be what Agarita looks like starting out. I would wait it out until I knew for sure what it is.
wildflowersoftexas.com
texasnatureonline.com


Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
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froggardener
Apr 26, 2016 9:30 PM CST
Thanks Jay, I will keep it for sure. I'm very curious
I'm experimenting with a couple of passifloras. I have them on the porch up against the house and the porch is covered, just to see what they do in bright shade. The leaves have already changed. they are oval now. Smiling
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
[Last edited by froggardener - Apr 27, 2016 9:06 AM (+)]
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Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Apr 27, 2016 3:30 PM CST
@froggardener, I finally got around and looked around the place to see if I might have a seedling Agarita. Here's the smallest I saw, maybe it'll give you some idea, because even though it's not a true seedling, the leaves are definitely a bit different.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/LindaTX8/2610a6

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[Last edited by LindaTX8 - Apr 27, 2016 3:30 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1130437 (7)
Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
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froggardener
Apr 27, 2016 9:56 PM CST
Oh Darn. Thanks for looking Linda Thank You! Thank You!
Well, I'm real curious what it is now. nodding
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 28, 2016 4:52 AM CST
Berberis glaucocarpa seedlings have leaves like this, it's not on the USDA plants but is on a list of USDA Rust Susceptible Berberis. I can't quite make out the leaf venation on the seedling pic.

http://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora_details.aspx?ID=3510

http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=9751

Are there any Mahonias nearby?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Oregon+grape+holly+seedlin...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Mahonia+aquifolium+seedlin...

Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Image
froggardener
Apr 28, 2016 7:10 AM CST
Hi Janet, no mahonia on at least 3 streets from me and most likely none
Most people here have just green boxes around their homes
I'm the only plantaholic Of course birds can bring seeds further
Thank you for replying
If I can keep the snails off of it, we will get to see what it is
The snails already got one leaf
Thanks again
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
[Last edited by froggardener - Apr 28, 2016 7:23 AM (+)]
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Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 28, 2016 7:36 AM CST
LindaTX8 said:@froggardener, I finally got around and looked around the place to see if I might have a seedling Agarita. Here's the smallest I saw, maybe it'll give you some idea, because even though it's not a true seedling, the leaves are definitely a bit different.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/LindaTX8/2610a6



The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .
Donald
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
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Horntoad
Apr 28, 2016 7:45 AM CST
needrain said:

The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .


That's what I was thinking also Donald. The largest leaf on Jolanas' looks very much like the older leaves on Linda's. I have a Hibiscus cannabinus "Amethyst" seedlling that started out with single round leaves. It is just now starting to show the palmate leaves on the fifth leaf.
wildflowersoftexas.com
texasnatureonline.com


Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 28, 2016 7:51 AM CST
needrain said:

The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .


Similar, but not the same. Smiling

Thumb of 2016-04-28/JRsbugs/a751a1 Thumb of 2016-04-28/JRsbugs/f36987

Compare the venation to those on Mahonia bealei and they are much the same.

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd/images/1536x1024/2154031.jpg

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd/images/1536x1024/2154020.jpg

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd/species/6889.htm



[Last edited by JRsbugs - Apr 28, 2016 7:54 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1131111 (13)
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 28, 2016 8:11 AM CST
I still think this is Berberis. I found an article which might help,

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/DigFlora/BERB/BERB-HaysLeaf....

This throws the cat amongst the pigeons:

The cotyledons and first true (juvenile stage 1) leaves do not differentiate our Berberis species, nor the hybrids


http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/DigFlora/BERB/BERB-lfform.ht...
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 28, 2016 9:07 AM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing I found this searching on the net:

"Agarita’s official Latin name was Berberis/now Mahonia trifoliolata (don't you love taxonomists!) and belongs to the Berberidaceae family of plants."

Obviously I may not even know what we are discussing here nodding . I know agarita from southwest Texas and the hill country, but maybe what I thought I knew isn't anything resembling real knowledge Hilarious! .
Donald
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 28, 2016 9:16 AM CST
It's forever changing. Rolling my eyes. Latin names are always best used as so many common names are misplaced.

Mahonia trifoliolata is accepted. On the same page:

⥇ A cross-taxon basionym link was ignored while processing this record, see Berberis trifoliolata Moric..


http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-3500419

Berberis trifoliolata Moric. is an unresolved name:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2674546

So the link which shows B. trifoliolata images really means they are showing Mahonia?! Hilarious!

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/DigFlora/BERB/BERB-lfform.ht...
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 28, 2016 10:48 AM CST
I know it's easy to boggle my mind, but it seems especially true when comes to plant names. Changing the nomenclature on a Latin name isn't helpful to my memory bank. On the other hand common names get shared among different plants. I've had conversations, discussions or whatever you would call them, that went for some length until it was discovered the common name being used concerned two totally different plants. Even photos can be confusing! Sticking tongue out Sticking tongue out
Donald
Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Image
froggardener
Apr 28, 2016 1:57 PM CST
Oh my goodness thank y'all so very much for trying to help me solve this Smiling Smiling
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Apr 28, 2016 2:31 PM CST
The fact that Berberis trifoliolata is now Mahonia probably explains why I was veering towards Mahonia. Hilarious!
Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Texas Garden Art Irises
Daylilies Butterflies Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Image
froggardener
Apr 28, 2016 3:21 PM CST
I really can't wait to see now. I certainly hope it survives now Hilarious!
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren

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