Daylilies forum: Buttered Popcorn or Spellbinder

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Name: Anna
North Texas (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Texas Clematis Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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canadanna
May 29, 2016 3:14 PM CST
According to AHS, spellbinder has a green throat, but none of the pic in the data base have a green throat. http://www.daylilies.org/DaylilyDB/detail.php?id=40209
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Spellbinder')
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Buttered Popcorn')
Is there any way to know what this is? There is a slightest hint of green.
Thumb of 2016-05-29/canadanna/d9ca1e

Name: Ken
East S.F. Bay Area (Zone 9a)
Region: California
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CaliFlowers
May 29, 2016 4:06 PM CST
I've never seen Buttered Popcorn, but I've grown Spellbinder for over 20 years, and that looks like Spellbinder to me. In your climate there may not be much difference between a Sev. and a Dor., but even here in my Zone 9 garden, Spellbinder drops below ground before first frost (Thanksgiving) and stays that way until spring. That may help you distinguish between the two. The general form and poise of the flowers is another clue, (petal form, midrib and overlap) in addition to the color. Spellbinder is a brilliant gold, Buttered Popcorn is a yellow. Weather can affect all of these things though.

There's an "Epoch Factor" or "Era Factor" that has to be applied to daylily registrations. In 1957, green throats were rare, particularly in tetraploids, and so if there was even a hint of green deep in the throat of a flower on a cool spring morning, you might find "green throat" in the description. I wouldn't describe Spellbinder as having a green throat, and I presume that Sam Baker, were he alive today, probably wouldn't either.

"Nocturnal" is another term that has been misapplied in the past. At a time when early-opening daylilies were not that commonplace, and the term EMO hadn't yet been coined, hybridizers who wished to indicate that their flower began opening shortly after dusk dusk the day before blooming, and were wide-open before dawn often used the term "nocturnal-extended". The correct use of nocturnal indicates a flower which starts to open in the late afternoon and is generally spent by the dawn of the next day, or shortly afterward. Sometimes the morning sun has to actually hit the flower before it degrades noticeably.

"Self" is yet another tricky term. Some use it to indicate that the entire flower is one color, even to the depths of the throat, while others use it to indicate a flower with a single color on all segments, exclusive of the throat area, which is described separately, e.g. "red self with a green throat".
Name: Regina
Warrenville, SC (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Ponds Frogs and Toads Dog Lover Cat Lover Butterflies
Dahlias Region: South Carolina
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scflowers
May 29, 2016 4:22 PM CST
Anna,
I've grown Spellbinder for a while also, and it does appear to look the same as yours. Here is a picture I took of it last week:

Thumb of 2016-05-29/scflowers/116e03

If you look down into the throat very early in the day, it is green, but it is a very small throat compared to what we expect to see as a 'green throat' by today's descriptions (as Ken explained above).

There was a thread earlier this spring about using the buds' shape/coloring/uniqueness to help identify a cultivar. I *think* Buttered Popcorn's buds may have a dark tint on the ends of them just before they open. Perhaps this will help you distinguish which one you have...there are many people on this forum that grow BP, maybe someone can take a peek at the buds on it to confirm or deny Smiling

Please note: I have a clump of what may be BP, but I can't be sure due to not keeping up with tags when I first began with daylilies. So...my helpful hint above is based on what could be a faulty memory Smiling
Name: Angela
Jacksonville, NC (Zone 8a)
Composter
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dayliliesandart
May 29, 2016 5:34 PM CST


My buttered popcorn. I agree, it's not buttered popcorn.
Do something today that your future self will thank you for.
Name: Anna
North Texas (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Texas Clematis Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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canadanna
May 29, 2016 6:20 PM CST
Thank you all for your comments.Very interesting. I'm all ears!
I guess the only way to really tell is to get buttered popcorn again and see if it is different!
South Central Kentucky (Zone 6b)
Daylilies Cat Lover Garden Art
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Cynthia59P
May 30, 2016 11:19 AM CST
The first picture is Buttered Popcorn and the second is of Spellbinder.
Thumb of 2016-05-30/Cynthia59P/330bf1


Thumb of 2016-05-30/Cynthia59P/8e2586

My thoughts is that it is Spellbinder. The color seems to be the closest match, as well as the wire like edging around Spellbinder.

Name: Anna
North Texas (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Texas Clematis Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
canadanna
May 30, 2016 12:43 PM CST
I can definitely see the difference now and agree that I must have Spellbinder. I went out early and saw small green tips at the ends of the ( tepals):is that right?
Thumb of 2016-05-30/canadanna/26b9f0

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