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Jun 21, 2012 10:59 AM CST
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
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Sempervivum arachnoideum f/Kliene Scheidegg

a tiny semp with a tiny, miniature flower, held very close to the plant.

Thumb of 2012-06-21/sandnsea2/60b108
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
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Jun 21, 2012 1:45 PM CST

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Oh, boy, that is a small one and another for the list. Looks like it is a true mini.

One of the vendors that sells semps, I forget which one, mentions that they are looking to find a semp that only gets to be 1/4" inch or so. They had it at one time but lost it. Apparently a mini "mini" one. It would be great if that one would turn up again. It was an arach.

I obtained 'Hookeri' several years back and struggled with it to find the right conditions initially. Now I've got a fairly nice clump of it. I'll have to get updated pics for here.
Last edited by twitcher Jun 21, 2012 8:26 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 21, 2012 5:34 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Janice, I just love you Sempervivum arachnoideum f/Kliene Scheidegg. That really is a mini. And so sweet the way it hold it's blooms close to the rosette.
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Jun 22, 2012 9:18 AM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
While S. montanum minimum is really tiny, S. pumilum hepworth is almost as small.
I need to take a new picture of it since it's propagated like mad, but it's so hot out.

S. montanum minimum has also propagated like crazy over the years, and yet it still doesn't take up much real estate.

S. Speciosum is a must have for those who like the minis. Mine is so gorgeous right now.
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Jun 22, 2012 9:29 AM CST
Name: Audrie
Parker, CO (Zone 5a)
Thank you guys for info on the mini's!!! I'm so looking forward to adding some to my semp garden!!

Tabby, where do you have yours? Shaded quite a bit?
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Jun 22, 2012 9:30 AM CST
Name: Marilyn
Greenwood Village, CO (Zone 5b)
Garden today. Clean next week.
Heucheras Bookworm Region: Colorado Garden Procrastinator Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
Enjoys or suffers cold winters Sempervivums Annuals Foliage Fan Herbs Garden Ideas: Level 2
While researching the varieties you mention in the posts on this thread I came across a site which you might like

This site is using Hypertufa as a medium in which to grow these plants. It is interesting because it is not a pot but a freeform crevice or slab.

http://www.bluefoxfarm.com/hyp...

Looked like it might work to shelter tender tiny semps.
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Jun 22, 2012 9:32 AM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Shaded in the middle of the day at most.

Dwarf Cobweb is also a fantastic miniature. Very pretty, very prolific.
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Jun 22, 2012 9:35 AM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I've seen them planted in the pockets in large rock at Timberline. They stay smaller that way and grow slowly but it looks really really nice!
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Jun 22, 2012 9:53 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Jacki does some very creative planting and uses hypertufa in wonderful ways. She also has a great nursery of hardy succulents for those of you that are in Canada. Check out her plants.
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Jun 22, 2012 10:59 AM CST
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy!
Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Looking forward to my Dwarf Cobweb taking off Tabby - thanks for the plants! Big Grin
Avatar for twitcher
Jun 22, 2012 11:45 AM CST

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
I really like the Orostachys minutum that I received from Tabby and Picklepuff this spring. It appears to be a really small one as well. Could not find a lot of info about it online but it is a beauty and tiny.

I do not think of Speciosum as a mini for some reason but can't argue. It stays small when in clumps and makes very nice clumps indeed. It's on my "everybody-should-have-this-one" list too.
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Jun 22, 2012 12:27 PM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I've never seen Speciosum other than tiny, but then again, I've only ever seen it as a clump. I have two clumps at the moment.
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Jun 22, 2012 12:39 PM CST
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
Daylilies Roses Orchids Miniature Gardening Lilies Irises
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
Avatar for twitcher
Jun 22, 2012 12:55 PM CST

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Tabby, I like to take a single young rosette and give it is own pot to see what it can do. I learned to do this from my experience with S. arach. 'Linde'. I grew it as a clump for years, and never saw the plants get past 1". It's very well behaved and makes a nice flat clump as it spreads, but the plants don't get big. I transplanted a few to some small pots, to have some to trade a few years ago. Much to my surprise the transplanted ones grew to 2" or more.

I've come to believe that the plants communicate to each other, likely chemically, in such a way as to say that they have neighbors. The message is that you are in a community, so don't get too big. Or we are dying here, so flower and set seed, etc. When the messages are not present, the plants can use all the resources and grow to full size, set more offsets and flower more often. Unfortunately, with all the hybrids floating around, some don't communicate within their type as well as they should. For example, I had a colony of 'Commander Hay' all decide to bloom at the same time. That included the parent rosette and all her offsets, all at the same time. I thought I had lost that variety, but later found a second pot of them at my parents house that I hadn't remembered.

That adaptability makes for interesting observations. For example, I have two versions of 'Hookeri'. One was purchased from Edelweiss and the other from North Hills. The names were slightly different, one "x barbulatum 'Hookeri'" and the other "barbulatum x 'Hookeri'". I felt at the time that these might be different, in that the ones from Edelwiess were in a larger clump and small, never more than 1". The other from North Hills looked greener and was larger, nearly 2". I've had these for several years and keep them separate, but have come to believe they might be the same plant, just looking somewhat different due to the North Hills ones not being as densely situated as the 'Edelweiss' ones. I've tried to get more information, but have never been able to find out much about either.

The question is in interpretation of the name.

"Barbulatum" was the name attached to a hybrid of two smaller Sempervivum species. At one point, nomenclature rules said that you could do this, but you were supposed to put an "x" in front of the name to denote its hybrid nature, so properly this hybrid should appear as: "x barbulatum". Then a variety of this could be: "x barbulatum 'Hookeri'".

If you then crossed it back to the original "x babulatum", you would end up with "(x barbulatum) x (x barbulatum 'Hookeri')" as the "x" can also be used to indicate a cross between two named varieties or species.

Now all it takes would be for someone who did not know the rules to just drop the x's from in front of barbulatum, (happens all the time with names like this), and be a little less formal about the barbulatum and you would end up with the other name: "barbulatum x 'Hookeri'.

So, I do not know for sure if these are different, or if these are the same, but just called by different names. I do propagate the original names, just in case they are different, and just try to relax and enjoy them.

(sorry about the long post and hope I didn't make it too confusing)
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Jun 22, 2012 1:22 PM CST
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy!
Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Hilarious! Not confusing at all Twit. Very interesting, in fact!
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Jun 22, 2012 1:25 PM CST
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
Daylilies Roses Orchids Miniature Gardening Lilies Irises
Yes, Twitch, about communicating one semp to another, much like Allelopathy. I am sure they do.
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
Image
Jun 22, 2012 1:36 PM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I.m not so sure it's a communication via chemicals as much as the plant sensing physical crowding. I can get the same affect from surrounding a semp with rocks, the sides of a pot, or non-related plants as I can with clumping.
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Jun 22, 2012 2:44 PM CST
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy!
Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
My semps just crawl up the rocks. Hilarious!
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Jun 22, 2012 3:07 PM CST
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums
Roses Ponds Irises Daylilies Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Mine quit putting out offsets when up against a vertical rock, mass of dense sedum or a high pot edge, much like they do in the middle of a clump.

Oh well, it's just all anecdotal data anyway. If I had the time and the inclination, I'd attempt a controlled experiment, but I've got more interesting things to do like pulling bindweed and thistle. Or hauling hoses around the yard. (Where's the sarcasm emoticon?)
Last edited by tabby Jun 22, 2012 3:19 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 23, 2012 1:31 AM CST
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy!
Sempervivums Sedums Region: Wisconsin Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Hilarious! I hear ya Tabby! I've got a ton of other plants too that demand attention.

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