Daylilies forum: bloom traits reverse bitone...what does it mean?

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Name: Dave
(Zone 6a)
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BlueRidge
Jul 8, 2016 10:15 AM CST
Sorry for what may be a foolish question, but I am looking at the bloom traits of a plant that I am trying to identify (Court Jester). The description indicates "bitone or reverse bitone"....what exactly does that mean? Any pictures would be appreciated.
Thank you!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jul 8, 2016 11:24 AM CST
Welcome!

This is an example of a reverse bitone, and there is a link on the page to bitone:

http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/reverse_bitone.html

Having said that, the registration for 'Court Jester' describes it as "Orange red medium with markings, bitone, or polychrome".
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 1:01 PM CST
In the database here under bloom traits: It says bitone or reverse bitone.
So I am wondering if sometimes it is one then at other times the other?
Here is the link for polychrome:
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/polychrome.html
'Court Jester' seems to be a very old plant. I found no photos of it.
However, 'Royal Jester' the bloom traits for it are : bicolor or reverse bicolor
I don't know if you are looking for the plant, or just wanted a definition of the terms. bicolor or reverse bicolor would be: http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/bicolor.html
reverse bicolor would be: ?
Didn't find the definition, but I am sure you get the point. Still, I have no idea why it shows them both. All the photos of 'Royal Jester' look pretty similar to me.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 8, 2016 1:17 PM (+)]
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 1:38 PM CST

Moderator

A few years ago I did an article on the terms used to describe the color patterns seen in daylilies. Both bicolor and bitone were included with examples. Here's a link to the article...
http://garden.org/ideas/view/Char/986/Daylilies-a-Rainbow-of...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 1:42 PM CST
@Char
Any idea why 'Court Jester' would list bitone or reverse bitone under bloom traits?
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 1:55 PM CST

Moderator

It's registered description is bitone.
The NGA database listing for bloom traits has the color description listed as bitone or reverse bitone, it is an NGA database checkbox designation. Take a peek in the search by characteristics area and you'll see what I mean.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 1:56 PM CST
Thanks, that explains it! So the check box is for either, instead of having one check box for each.
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 2:25 PM CST

Moderator

Yes, the checkbox is for either. When you read the color description on NGA or use the AHS database link to read the registration it will (should) give you the color placement, in this case bitone.

Color description of Court Jester - ORM2: Orange red medium with markings, bitone, or polychrome
What is interesting in the color description is the inclusion of "markings" and "or polychrome" which makes me wonder if this is a bitone as defined or a blend, a mix of two colors on the tepals. A polychrome is a mix of three or more colors on the tepals.
Wonder what "markings" refers to? Wish there was an image of it.
Thanks for the Acorn Smiling
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 8, 2016 3:33 PM CST
There's an image of it in the Daylily Journal of Spring 2000, page 63. Winner of the 1999 Tricolor Award. AHS members can access that issue on the AHS members portal in the journal archives.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 3:42 PM CST
Oops, wrong photo.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 8, 2016 3:46 PM (+)]
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 4:40 PM CST

Moderator

I'm not sure that is Court Jester the cultivar...don't they usually have a theme for the Tricolor class and the entrants name their entries to go with that theme? The daylily in the image doesn't show an orange red either.....

Haven't been on the AHS Portal in a while, the addition of the older journals complete with searchability is awesome! Now I know what to do on those rainy washed out hybridizing days Thumbs up
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 8, 2016 5:21 PM CST
I wondered about it too, Char, but it was shown in the index as a cultivar name. Maybe it was misinterpreted. I have no clue about exhibition classes, we don't have them here. Presumably there might be a clue in the results somewhere. Unfortunately that is the only reference to the name in the journals index. Is it even still available?
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 5:45 PM CST
http://patriotdaylilysociety.org/AHS%20Tricolor%20Winners%20...
Looks like Court Jester was the design and 'Marie Babin' was the cultivar? Love the use of those brake shoes.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 8, 2016 5:46 PM (+)]
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 5:51 PM CST

Moderator

I just looked in my Exhibition handbook and yes, there is normally a general theme for the design division with the classes named to follow the theme. My guess is when the search list of cultivar images was done the person(s) didn't realize the way the design class works.
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
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Char
Jul 8, 2016 5:54 PM CST

Moderator

Oh GREAT find Larry! Thumbs up Yes, that explains much better than the AHS DJ image.
Name: Dave
(Zone 6a)
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BlueRidge
Jul 9, 2016 5:13 AM CST
Seedfork said:http://patriotdaylilysociety.org/AHS%20Tricolor%20Winners%20Through%20the%20Years.pdf
Looks like Court Jester was the design and 'Marie Babin' was the cultivar? Love the use of those brake shoes.


Thank you so much, I really appreciate all the helpful comments and this photo!
Thank You!

Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Seedfork
Jul 9, 2016 6:34 AM CST
@BlueRidge, just want to make sure you understood that was not a photo of 'Court Jester' but of cultivar 'Marie Babin'.
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Marie Babin')
Name: Dave
(Zone 6a)
Image
BlueRidge
Jul 13, 2016 5:34 AM CST
[quote="Seedfork"]@BlueRidge, just want to make sure you understood that was not a photo of 'Court Jester' but of cultivar 'Marie Babin'.
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Marie Babin')

Aw shoot, I had misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
*Blush*

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