Post a reply

Image
Jul 11, 2016 9:44 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Yes, and that's what I want to discuss. But I need to buy off one more day to get caught up on some other correspondence first. I hate putting you off but I have too. I apologize. Tomorrow.
Image
Jul 12, 2016 10:17 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
OK.

Just to recap what we already discussed, I said that most often when you get a color loss over a white base it is because nighttime temperatures for about two weeks leading up to bud opening is too high. That is generally a almost always true influence. Daytime temperatures matter too, but not nearly as much. In the trade circles, daytime or light cycle is referred to as D1, nighttime cycle or dark cycle is called D2. The best temperatures for color development during that two week period are 70-80'F D1 and 50-70'F D2

[ I'd like to jump ahead here and say why, but we need to discuss some other in general things first].

When you received your bulb last spring and planted it, it produced a pretty white flower with the pink edge. Working back to the previous year before you had it, it was under somebody else's control. Most likely a grower who grew this plant under optimum conditions and care. It was then stored over winter in a chiller/freezer at 31'F for it's semi dormant resting period to program itself for the next summer's performance ( which includes the pink edge). Which brings us to the point when you got it. So, then, the flower colors it produced for you the first year are the result of somebody else's control. Once you planted it, it became under your control and care. Many things we can control, we do, like feeding and garden maintenance and so on. But things we can't control are things like weather, climate and micro environment variations.

In order to understand how these factors affect color, we must first have a visual concept of a plants cell and what part controls color(s). Think of a cell as a hard boiled egg. The egg white is a jellylike material called cytoplasm. This part contains chloroplasts responsible for the greenery, like leaves as well as many, many other plant functions but no need to discuss that here. Now, think of the yolk part that is called a vacuole. The vacuole contains a group of flavonoids called anthocyanins that CONTROL petal color. They include the red and pink pigments called cyaniding, scarlet or brick red, pelargonidin, yellow carotenoid and so on. The potential for all colors and combinations (except blue) is always there even in a white flower. If it's not, it means the vacuole did not fill or was void of a particular color because it was blocked or did not release a particular color or any color at all.. In your case the pink over the white base. Why?

Well, you were on the right track when you thought you may have created a micro climate too warm during the semi dormant chill and reprograming cycle. The general rule in the trade is UNINTERUPTED 450 hours at 31-35'F minimum. In the garden, any interruption like a warm spell in the middle to later part of winter will alter the bulbs reprograming and affect several things, including shade, depth, tone and hue of color. So, you were right on with your thinking with that. But why then do we say the D2 nighttime temperatures are so important those last 10 days?

Well, it all comes down to pH. Not the pH of the soil but the pH of the cell during those last 10 days or so. Bud and flower color development occurs mainly at D2 nighttime. The varcuole also takes care of a certain amount of waste products which increase with temperature that lower the pH of the cell. The higher the D2 metabolic rate, the higher the waste load, the lower the pH. The color pink is particularly affected adversely, occasionally to a point where it won't show at all if cell pH is too low.

So, the conclusion of the story is: move your plant and hope for good weather next year. There Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing , could have answered your question in one sentence. But I recognized by your writing that you wanted to know a little more. Hope this gave you some of the info you're looking for. If not, just ask. Smiling
Image
Jul 13, 2016 3:55 AM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
An intelligent question deserves an intelligent answer. What a great discussion - I learned alot. Thumbs up
Image
Jul 13, 2016 6:43 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Elaine
Reston, Virginia (Zone 7a)
Roosterlorn said:

So, the conclusion of the story is: move your plant and hope for good weather next year. There Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing , could have answered your question in one sentence. But I recognized by your writing that you wanted to know a little more. Hope this gave you some of the info you're looking for. If not, just ask. Smiling



WOW! Thanks for such an informative answer! I agree; you could have simply said it's too warm, but then I would have never known there could be other aspects to this temperature problem which I could potentially self mitigate.

I'm learning this gardening thing, the problem I have is that I live in a town house and garden space is at an absolute premium. And because ALL of our sunny garden space is bordered by a heat radiating brick wall, it's been trial and error. We can't just plunk something in the ground, and I've found some things are much more tolerant. For example, after a few years of struggling to find something to fill this particular space, I planted Clematis "Madam Julia Correvon". She has completely ignored the old saying "first year they sleep, second year they creep, third year they leap". This is just a two year clematis which after a hard prune late last winter, shot up to 8 feet tall and has taken over the rails. Clearly, she doesn't mind the heat!

Thumb of 2016-07-13/2whippets/8f62fe

This brings me to a question (and I apologize if I'm being long winded). Since I have no place to move the lilies, and it's very unlikely that in their current location they're getting an uninterrupted minimum 450 hours at 31-35'F, could I lift them in the fall, place them in cold storage and replant in early spring? These are the first Oriental lilies I have grown, and while they seem to be a little more fussy than the Asiatics (IMHO), the anticipation and build up, waiting for their summer show is worth the extra effort. Thoughts? Any other suggestions?
Image
Jul 13, 2016 12:13 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
Logically, it seems you could, but they'll run into the same problem the next year (heat radiation potential at the wrong time) when re-planted there and if the summer temps repeat as this year. I'd leave them there (as you noted, lack of garden space) and hope for kinder temps next year, and in subsequent years.

That Lorn is quite the educator isn't he?
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Image
Jul 16, 2016 1:38 PM CST

I do not think they are the same cultivar as the orientation and shape of the flower is not the same. Some evil rodent probably moved bulbs around just to drive you crazy. Do you have squirrels?
Image
May 13, 2018 4:22 PM CST
Name: Edwin Lee
New York City (Zone 7b)
"I originally picked up The Edge, along with Robina, Casablanca and Stargazer from a vendor at the Philadelphia Flower Show in the spring of 2015." Which vendor was it?

Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.
  • Started by: 2whippets
  • Replies: 26, views: 8,374
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by RootedInDirt and is called "Angel Trumpet"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.