Lilies forum: Help with ID

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Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
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kniphofia
Jul 13, 2016 12:16 AM CST
I'm always impressed with this large clump of lilies at RHS Harlow Carr. When I visited a couple of days ago they were at their peak.

Can anyone help with an ID?


Thanks
Sue

[Last edited by kniphofia - Jul 16, 2016 3:15 AM (+)]
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Name: della
hobart, tasmania
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dellac
Jul 13, 2016 3:57 AM CST
Beautiful pic. Hope the minds with martagon know-how can help you.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
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Leftwood
Jul 13, 2016 5:11 PM CST
I've never seen one like that. You might need the help of a UK native liliophile, or a European based forum like the SRGC. I could post there for you with the pic, if you like.
central Illinois
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jmorth
Jul 14, 2016 1:36 PM CST
Site w/ plenty of pics:
http://www.lilies.org/martagoncd/photos.html
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
derby uk.
lilymanrob
Jul 16, 2016 1:27 AM CST
look like 'claude shride'
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
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Australis
Jul 16, 2016 1:34 AM CST
It does look similar to 'Claude Shride', but I'm not convinced it is. Seems to have more spotting and the pollen looks a bit different.

Other photos from the database for comparison:

Lily (Lilium 'Claude Shride')

Sue, had it been raining before the photo? Can't quite tell if they're wet/covered with droplets or the marks are part of the bloom itself.
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
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kniphofia
Jul 16, 2016 3:19 AM CST
Yes it had rained that morning.

Here's another photo from a previous visit. I have messaged Harlow Carr to see if they have a record of the variety. It looks much more spotted than Claude Shride.

Thumb of 2016-07-16/kniphofia/c7b610

Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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magnolialover
Jul 16, 2016 7:40 AM CST

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I'm not sure on the variety, though it is really nice. Contacting Richard Hyde in the UK or Ramona from Faraway Flowers may get you an answer. Just a thought..
Tracey
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Jul 16, 2016 8:10 AM CST
Oh! Thanks for taking a closer look, Joshua! I had interpreted the droplet glinting as speckles, which is an unusual trait for a martagon.

Being from the land where Claude Shride originated (about 70 miles southeast of me), I've seen many. Even in my own garden, they can vary with the number of spots, from sparsely spotted to no spots, and even the light midrib color can appear or not appear from year to year. I certainly don't know what they might display in the UK. I have grown several other cultivars/and of questionable identity that look similar. It's a look that comes up fairly commonly in breeding. All this said, I don't really have an opinion either way, if it is Claude Shride or not. Probably the best way to know, barring info from the Harlow Carr garden itself, would be to compare the growth form of the entire plant, rather than rely so much on the flower.
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
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kniphofia
Jul 16, 2016 10:16 AM CST
Here's a wider view of the clump from a 2014 visit.

Many thanks for everyone's input.

Thumb of 2016-07-16/kniphofia/56ba56

Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Charter ATP Member Houseplants Annuals Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Foliage Fan
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kniphofia
Jul 23, 2016 1:22 AM CST
Harlow Carr have just come back with "Martagon" so after doing some more searching around I'm inclined to agree with lilymanrob's suggestion that it is Claude Shride.

Many thanks everyone.
derby uk.
lilymanrob
Jul 23, 2016 3:39 AM CST
Australis said:It does look similar to 'Claude Shride', but I'm not convinced it is. Seems to have more spotting and the pollen looks a bit different.

Other photos from the database for comparison:

Lily (Lilium 'Claude Shride')

Sue, had it been raining before the photo? Can't quite tell if they're wet/covered with droplets or the marks are part of the bloom itself.


i see what you mean looking at the database, but mine has very similar spots and was sold by a grower here in the uk as claude shride.
Skåne, Sweden (Zone 7b)
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William
Jul 23, 2016 6:55 PM CST
It looks like a superb martagon, but perhaps it's not all about the spots as the color of the stigma at least to my eyes doesn't seem to match most other images of 'Claude Shride', either online or indeed as seen in my own garden:
'

I did however find one photo of 'Claude Shride' that looks a little more like the martagon in your image: https://www.blomsbulbs.com/lilies/claude-shride
It's a UK vendor.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Jul 23, 2016 7:36 PM CST
It would seem that if Harlow Carr doesn't know which martagon is planted there, (it could even just be a seedling and not a cultivar at all!), how can you be so sure as to put it in the data base? I had asked that you look at the whole plant. Now that I see the whole plant, it doesn't have the dark stems, the more rigid, sturdy growth, the much higher leaf count per whorl, the more rounded leaves, and the tighter inflorescence structure that Claude Shride has. All this, not even considering the difference in the flower. In my opinion at least, it is not Claude Shride.

What would make you choose Claude Shride over Arabian Knight, for instance? http://www.lilies.org/martagoncd/namedhybrids/pages/ArabianK...
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Charter ATP Member Houseplants Annuals Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Foliage Fan
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cactus and Succulents Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
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kniphofia
Jul 23, 2016 9:53 PM CST
OK, don't get you knickers in a twist! You can ask for the contribution to that database entry be deleted.
derby uk.
lilymanrob
Jul 24, 2016 1:51 AM CST
heres my claude shride..... or it was sold to me here in the uk as claude shride


Thumb of 2016-07-24/lilymanrob/9f924e

Skåne, Sweden (Zone 7b)
Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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William
Jul 24, 2016 3:06 AM CST
That looks very much like my own 'Claude Shride', Rob.

Sue, it's a beautiful photo. A bit tricky with lilium ID sometimes. If you feel uncertain of the ID, perhaps you yourself could suggest a move to a more general database entry?

Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Jul 24, 2016 8:24 AM CST
William--- Rolling on the floor laughing I never have that problem. My crosses aren't named Green Grin!
Skåne, Sweden (Zone 7b)
Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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William
Jul 24, 2016 1:26 PM CST
Lorn, well that is one solution Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Love your practical thinking, but actually you have created so many wonderful hybrids and if I may say so, I think that many of them really deserve names.

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