Hibiscus forum: Midnight Marvel X Luna Pink Swirl

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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 17, 2016 8:58 AM CST
Some of the Hibiscus moscheutos are not self fertile. Midnight Marvel is one. Last year I crossed it with Luna Pink Swirl on a whim and it took, more than once so I know it wasn't a fluke. I finally got a bloom of the cross and it looks like the mother plant Midnight Marvel! I can't wait for the rest of the buds to open to see if it stays true to the mother plant.

For those of you with other Hardy Hibiscus that are not self fertile, start crossing them with other cultivars and see if it takes and keep records of the crosses that do.

Here is the MM X LPS cross.

Thumb of 2016-07-17/Xeramtheum/dce618

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Name: Sandi
Austin, Tx (Zone 8b)
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Bubbles
Jul 17, 2016 9:09 AM CST
Lovely! Thumbs up
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
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Horntoad
Jul 17, 2016 11:49 AM CST
Curious about the flower form of your new hybrid. The mother show petals that are more separated giving it a scalloped look, while the father has a round "dinner plate" form. How does the baby look fully opened?
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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 17, 2016 2:03 PM CST
I noticed that too Jay and was hoping to see if the petals separated when fully opened .. unfortunately it started raining about an hour after I took the picture so I can't really tell - it's just drooping.

Also wanted to add that I'm going to try microwaving the pollen of the Midnight Marvel when it blooms again and see if it the breaks the sterility problem.
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[Last edited by Xeramtheum - Jul 17, 2016 2:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
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froggardener
Jul 17, 2016 6:28 PM CST
Love it, can't wait to see the next blooms

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Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Jul 18, 2016 11:26 AM CST
It doesn't look like Midnight Marvel to me. That one has dark foliage. This one looks green to me. I wonder what it will take to get the foliage to keep the color.
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Horntoad
Jul 18, 2016 1:17 PM CST
clintbrown said:It doesn't look like Midnight Marvel to me. That one has dark foliage. This one looks green to me. I wonder what it will take to get the foliage to keep the color.


When she said it looks like Midnight Marvel, I believe she was referring to the bloom. It does look like it has it's father's leaves. I would recross the hybrid back with each of it's parents.
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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 18, 2016 4:07 PM CST
You're right Jay .. I was referring to the color of the flower more than anything else .. the MM had multi lobed leaves the LPS does not and all of my hybrid plants have the leaves like the LPS. The flower form does look like the LPS but until I'm able to observe one fully opened I can't tell for sure. I find it interesting that the LPS appears to be dominant - considering it's a bi-color.

I am planning to back cross Jay but my LPS hasn't bloomed yet .. has bud though and I have another MM X LPS showing buds. I'm really hoping that microwaving the pollen on the MM overcomes the self infertility and I can get some seeds but considering the fact that nothing took on the LPS when I hand pollinated it with the MM I don't think it's going to happen. But I'll certainly give it a try.
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Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Jul 18, 2016 4:41 PM CST
Nice.
[Last edited by clintbrown - Jul 18, 2016 5:26 PM (+)]
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Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
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Horntoad
Jul 18, 2016 6:36 PM CST
Just curious Anne, do you know if the parent you choose to use as pollen parent impacts the outcome. Example: Assuming both plants are fertile, pollen from A is applied to B, and pollen from B is applied to A, would you expect the same outcome?
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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 18, 2016 7:50 PM CST
To a small degree Jay. I've worked a lot with morning glory's and have 'followed the genes' of 3 deliberate I. nil hybrids, some incredibly different in form and size, for gosh at least 6 generations now. The F1's are usually a good mixture of both parents but you'll get a few that are 'out there'. F2's are still a good mixture and you'll start to see a definite dominance of forms in colors, flowers and leaves. F3's oddly enough can be any thing goes and by the time you get to F4 you'll start to see stability.

This is my 1st year working with hibiscus (I'm also crossing H. sinensis) and the start to following the genes - my hybrids are just starting to 'come online' with blooms and it's very exciting.
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Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Horntoad
Jul 20, 2016 5:35 PM CST
Anne how do you list unnamed hybrids when using then in a breeding program. I have a hybrid, Hibiscus leavis X Hibiscus moscheutos, that I have crossed with some straight species and was wondering how to show the parentage of the children.
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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 20, 2016 7:26 PM CST
It can get messy and I'm sure there are standard ways of documenting that I don't know about. I always list the mother plant first - this is what an F1 back cross BC would look like.

MM X BC-(MM/LPS-F1) - F1

Remember, every time you add a new variable the seeds will be F1's.

If I cross the MM X LPS F1's to themselves then the off spring would be F2.

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Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 24, 2016 7:57 AM CST
Finally a flower in full bloom!

The color is still MM but the petals are not tight with the edges of the flower perfectly round like LPS and there is a hint of scalloping like MM. Definitely a good mixture of both parents.

I also noticed that the MM produces round leaves as well as lobed and the color of the leaves lean more toward LPS and have no reddish veining like MM so I'm not surprised that none of the hybrid plants have lobed leaves, but as the plant matures we could see some lobed leaves.

So I'd say this F1 MM X LPS is a good mixture of both parents - the leaf pic is of MM not the hybrid.

Thumb of 2016-07-24/Xeramtheum/a6c319 Thumb of 2016-07-24/Xeramtheum/6cbc9a

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Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Jul 24, 2016 8:59 AM CST
That's strange. My 'Midnight Marvel' has dark leaves that are a burgundy color. Is that one in the shade? I wonder if the color of the foliage is different in various zones. I I love that plant.
Thumb of 2016-07-24/clintbrown/6f6d01
Name: Anne
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
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Xeramtheum
Jul 24, 2016 12:09 PM CST
Mine are a burgundy too .. I think they get greener in shade and darker in full sun.
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[Last edited by Xeramtheum - Jul 24, 2016 12:10 PM (+)]
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Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Jul 24, 2016 12:12 PM CST
The foliage on Perfect Storm and Starry Starry Night is even darker. I love those too!

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