Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Variegated Pocahontas

Views: 349, Replies: 15 » Jump to the end
Name: James
Kingsport, TN
Sempervivums Sedums Roses Herbs Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents
Container Gardener Greenhouse Farmer Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Tennessee
Image
jkbingh
Jul 22, 2016 4:46 PM CST
Here is one of two variegated offsets from Pocahontas that I have discovered. It looks very cool. The variegation goes the length of the leaves. I talked with Lynn about it and will keep an eye on them to see if they stay stable.
Thumb of 2016-07-22/jkbingh/ef19a6

Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
Image
webesemps
Jul 23, 2016 12:38 AM CST
Very nice; it's like a green stripe thru the pink! Smiling
Name: Jo Ann Mc Brayer
NW Oregon (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums
Image
ricos
Jul 23, 2016 12:45 AM CST
interesting ...looks like the same kind of thing that Streaker does...different colors. Thumbs up
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Jul 23, 2016 2:06 PM CST

Moderator

@JungleShadows
Kevin can you explain how this happens. It would be great to have a thread devoted to what causes color changes in semperivuvm.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Jul 24, 2016 8:44 AM CST
Too long for a post Lynn, there are books on the subject! I did my PhD on variegation! Here's the abridged version!

This one looks to be a mutation in one of the anthocyanin genes so that it is turned off in segments. These chimeral plants that are random throughout the rosette are unstable. Propagules from the anthocyanin-containing sections will have anthocyanin, those without anthocyanin not, and a very few will stay variegated. Some very mutable ones will continue to produce variegated segments such as Poco Loco. These are similar to the variegated corn kernels studied by McClintock (jumping gene Nobel Prize winner). They have a more random look to the anthocyanin distribution.

A more stable arrangement occurs in Brillante, in which a whole tissue layer is mutant. These will produce their like. New Rhumba and Laszlo's variegated one are also this type of mutation. The ubiquitous variegated hosta are this type of mutation.

Hope that helps!

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Jul 24, 2016 8:56 AM CST

Moderator

That was helpful Kevin. Thank you so much.
I forgot to ask, will this topic be covered in your upcoming book on sempervivum?
[Last edited by valleylynn - Jul 24, 2016 8:57 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1222420 (6)
Name: James
Kingsport, TN
Sempervivums Sedums Roses Herbs Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents
Container Gardener Greenhouse Farmer Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Tennessee
Image
jkbingh
Jul 24, 2016 9:38 AM CST
Thank you Lynn and Kevin. That was very helpful. I will continue to watch these two and whatever happens, happens but it sure is fun when growing these you get to discover these cool mutations. Smiling
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Jul 24, 2016 11:35 AM CST
James, Your avatar is a beautiful chimeral variegation that is stable! I want a semp just like that!

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Jul 24, 2016 2:15 PM CST

Moderator

Wouldn't that be a sell out. Smiling
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
Image
webesemps
Jul 24, 2016 2:42 PM CST
I agree
Name: James
Kingsport, TN
Sempervivums Sedums Roses Herbs Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents
Container Gardener Greenhouse Farmer Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Tennessee
Image
jkbingh
Jul 25, 2016 7:40 AM CST
Thank you Kevin. That would definitely be a sellout if you hybridized a semp like that. I am very fond of that Echeveria. I have a Echeveria subsessilis variegata that is almost identical in coloration to it with the leaf forms a little different. If there is a way to get that in a semp I'm sure you will find it but it sure would be a knockout. Drooling
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Jul 25, 2016 12:05 PM CST
James,

In my hybridizing class I point to two Echeverias that I have potted on my patio as goals that should be achievable in semps. One of them is a huge silver and the other a very dark brown, verging on black. This year I have a silver one that even surpasses the Echevaria and I'm working on a black semp with several very close.

The variegated ones are more difficult to obtain because we need a sort of splish-plashed variegated plant to use as a maternal parent. Both New Rhumba and Brillante are chimeras with one white histogenic layer. They will give either green or white (lethal) seedlings not more variegated ones. I do look for mutations that have those splish-splash sectors and have sectrs on two plants in the garden but no bloom on those plants.

Until then, we have good examples in other succulents for what we can achieve in semps.

Kevin
Name: James
Kingsport, TN
Sempervivums Sedums Roses Herbs Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents
Container Gardener Greenhouse Farmer Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Tennessee
Image
jkbingh
Jul 25, 2016 12:37 PM CST
Hi Kevin. I somewhat grasp what you are saying now. I have been doing alot of reading up on this. I also have a variegated Echeveria called rainbow that I have added a picture of. I believe this to be a variegated form of Perle Von Nuremberg. Would Laszlo's variegated tectorum work in that experiment? I have three rosettes of it that I acquired this year. They haven't rooted fully yet with the summer heat here but they are looking good and when the weather cools they should be just fine.
Thumb of 2016-07-25/jkbingh/015ca6

Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Jul 25, 2016 1:11 PM CST
James,

Unfortunately Laszlo's plant is also a chimera so it will give white or green but no variegated seedlings. The ones that are splashed are really mottled so it's not as pretty a variegation, but they are the ones useful in breeding. These have both mutant plastids and chloroplasts together in the same cell. These will produce ovule cells that contain both types of plastid and thus give rise to variegated plants. I keep several streaked hosta to use as a pod parent (chloroplasts are inherited maternally) and then put various pollens on these. Almost all of the variegated hosta that are on the market go back to one of my seedlings called 73-2, that gave almost 100% variegated seedlings.

Hope that helps!

Kevin
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
Image
gg5
Jul 26, 2016 7:58 PM CST
Wow Kevin another reason for me to be impressed! You are the father of variegated hostas! Cool!
Nice job - since I love them! I tip my hat to you.
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Jul 26, 2016 9:31 PM CST
Actually Frances Williams gave me a plant of Beatrice and that was the key. It gave variegated seedlings and one of them was the break we needed in order to get lots of variegated progeny as it had lots of cells with both mutant and wild type chloroplasts together. I named two plants, Breeder's Choice and William Lachman, that are behind a lot of the variegated hosta we have today. These had much better substance than Beatrice too.

It seems like ancient history now. That variegated seedling was one that I germinated in '71! Now I'm retired!

Kevin

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by nativeplantlover and is called "Bumble Veronica Pink"