Vegetables and Fruit forum: Drip versus emitters in watering system

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Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 9:36 AM CST
I finally got my drip system installed and it works pretty well but only slowly adds moisture to soil if I don't use it regularly. I need to set up a timer (which I have) to run it more often.

Other question involves emitters. Rick (Cory) you have a drip system. What do you find works best for you. There are so many types. I was just thinking of using short guys that will just spray down low (to keep leaves dry) but spread the ground coverage better than drip. Guess I could insert emitters only in some sections and not others.

Ideas?
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Aug 1, 2016 11:00 AM CST
Hi.Mary 😎 from philip in fresno ca. 100+ weather past 10 days. I have my veges on drip lines hooked to auto timer. I use 1 gallon per hour button emitters. No problems. Emitters every 12 inches. Welcome!
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 4:47 PM CST
@philipwonel Thanks. I will look them up on Drip Works. How frequently does your system turn on. Obviously you need far more water than I. Fresno is one hot place from my memory. I was born in Oakland. Thank You!
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 1, 2016 5:19 PM CST
Mary Stella, I'm still puttering around and trying things for fun.

I like the sprayers because I can SEE them running and tell how much water they're putting out. And if I use 180 degree sprayers around the edges of beds, I can hoe weeds without chopping dripline. Plus, there are many brands of sprayers and I have an excuse to experiment.

Those "down-sprayers" are nice - you can control exactly where they add water, and they need not get leaves wet. But I've only found one source (DripWorks = http://www.dripworks.com/product/Q_MAD ), so there's no excuse to fiddle and compare, which for me is a minus. (But I tend to grab those first when I want just some water in one specific spot).

I think the Antelco C-frame down-spray jets are what DripWorks re-sells, though Antelco advertises three flow rates(6, 7.5 or 9 GPH at 15 PSI):
http://www.antelco.com/usa/sprays/downspray.html
http://www.antelco.com/usa/pdfs/CFd%20Downspray.pdf

If you like the focused aspect of the down-spray sprayers, you might want to look at "Shrubblers" and Spectrum sprayers, though they throw a lot of GPH for their small radius.

Shrubblers http://www.dripworks.com/product/Q_DSH ("fingers" of water on low arcs)
Spectrum sprayers http://www.dripworks.com/product/Q_MSP (low distance, high volume spray for shrubs)
Bubblers: http://www.dripworks.com/product/Q_DAB (high volume, very low distance. )

BTW, if you like the "fingers" style of watering, "spraying" but no mist and very little "blow-away" water, Antelco has a series of cheap, tiny "sprayer caps" that reduce the misty spray to "fingers".
http://www.antelco.com/usa/sprays/msjc&b.html
http://www.antelco.com/usa/pdfs/Micro%20Spray%20Jets%20Caps%...

I really like the Antelco idea that you buy the "cap" based on the spray pattern you want, then pick the base that has the oriface size that has the flow rate you want.


But I know the drippers are less wasteful than sprayers and prevent weeds by keeping all of the surface dry except for the one spot where the drip drops.

Unless you have naked sand, the water from a dripper spreads out a lot once it reaches the soil.
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Butterflies Vegetable Grower Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Greenhouse
Farmer Birds Bee Lover Tomato Heads Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Thomas75
Aug 1, 2016 5:25 PM CST
Hi Mary,

I am getting ready to install a drip irrigation system in my garden and I have chosen this 1/4" tube.
Thumb of 2016-08-01/Thomas75/b66a6f

It has built in emitters every 12" and is available at Lowe's. I will use it in a manual on / off mode to start with but do plan to hook it up to an automated control.

Thomas75
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 1, 2016 5:28 PM CST
I like the "twist" timers because I can walk up to the spigot, tiwst it to "30 minutes" of "45 minutes" and walk away.

If I forget to turn it off, the house still doesn't float away in the middle of the night.
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 5:34 PM CST
Since my system is in 4x8 raised beds, and I ran the 1/2" lines down the short sides with four 1/4" lines equally spaced from short end to short end, it seems like the drippers are little oases of moist soil in the midst of dry areas. Hadn't thought about the idea of depriving weeds of water. But I run my rows of vegies across the short ends. We can only eat so much lettuce at a time; peas, beans I am going to run the long way next year putting them on the east side of the beds as they grow to 7-8' tall. Normally I would choose the north side which is what I have done up to now, but that is the shorter span so more rows. I thought if I used the shrublers maybe every other hole (12" spacing on holes) I could get better spread on the water. Also I need to hook up my timer. I forget I even have the system then turn it on and forget it till water is running out the sides. (only once but did I EVER hear about it from DH). My brocs just don't head well. I think I need to really pump up the stuff I put into it this fall (mulch, compost, etc) so it is nicely enriched for spring. I even bury fish carcasses from our salmon in them. A bit yukky this spring as the heads didn't rot and were full of maggots. I thought it was a clod of dirt and picked one up to break up the clump. EEUUUUUUUWWWW! Gross Gross,. Grumbling

I have the economy version from Drip Works for my three beds. Not sure what I missed with not getting the more expensive one but figured I could tailor it after it was installed (three years after purchase -- another story Rolling on the floor laughing )

Never and end to the planning. I will plant lettuce this fall as it did well germinating in the spring right on time. Not sure what other seeds would go for that treatment though.

Thanks for the info above. Some substantiated the direction I was headed and the other gave me some different ideas. Always dangerous.
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 5:35 PM CST
As I mentioned before I saw your post about the house floating away..... I think that is what timers are for
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 1, 2016 6:08 PM CST
I agree.

But I also used some "compression" fittings and didn't entirely trust them at 45 PSI. So if I could SEE at least one sprayer spraying, I knew that the 3/4" mainline didn't blow off the fitting around back of the house.

I've never had one of thsoe compreession fittings come loose. But once I used threaded sprayers (1/32 thread, I think, not the Antelco "quick threads" that hold better) in soft 1/4 VINYL tubing. THAT didn't even hold long at 30 PSI! Rigid Risers, yes, vinyl, no. Regular 1/4" polyethylene tubing with 10/32 threaded sprayers? I think those blew out fast at 30 45 PSI and soon at 30 PSI.

Now I would never use vinyl 1/4" tubing for anything, though "barbs" seem to hold in it.
And I would MUCH rather use the Antelco threads (coarser and more raised than 10/32).
But If I regulate our city water down to 20-30 PSI, and use Rigid Risers for the common, wimpy 10/32 threaded fittings, it seems reliable.

It was awesome to watch a long length of 1/4" vinyl tubing wave around, throwing a 45 PSI jet of water around the neighborhood!
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 8:44 PM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing I had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a metal coil spewing beer - about a 1/4" under some amount of pressure. I was pouring for an event and having trouble with getting only foam to start. The 'help' turned up the pressure which blew the coil where it was going into the tap inside the ice chest where this lashup was mounted. Very portable dontcha know? Hilarious! I saw beer spewing out from under the lid and lifted it to see what was going on. Whammo - right in the kisser. Not necessarily an unpleasant experience. Rolling my eyes. Had to fight it back onto the tap for a few moments. No way to go change clothes or wash so I poured beer for about 2.5 hours that way. Fortunately it was a very hot day and I dried out fast. Just prayed when I drove home I wasn't stopped for any reason by a policeman. Oh! the 'splainin' to be done.
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
Oberon46
Aug 1, 2016 8:47 PM CST
Oh. @thomas75. I missed your post. I have seen all sorts of that stuff at Lowe's but was so ignorant about parts and pieces I took the coward's way out and just bought a kit from Drip Works. So yours has emitters built in? Neat. How do you get from your faucet to the 1/4" line?
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Butterflies Vegetable Grower Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Greenhouse
Farmer Birds Bee Lover Tomato Heads Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Thomas75
Aug 2, 2016 2:13 AM CST
Oberon46 said:Oh. @thomas75. I missed your post. I have seen all sorts of that stuff at Lowe's but was so ignorant about parts and pieces I took the coward's way out and just bought a kit from Drip Works. So yours has emitters built in? Neat. How do you get from your faucet to the 1/4" line?


Mary you would use 1/2-in Polyethylene Drip Irrigation Distribution Tubing that would connect to your faucet and then each "run" of the Drip Tube would branch off this.

I have six rows that are 50-foot long each and I might make three individual 1/2" main lines with 2-each 1/4" drip lines off each main line. This way I can feed any two rows at a time or all six.
Thomas75
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
Oberon46
Aug 2, 2016 9:56 AM CST
Yes, that is how my mini system is set up. Drip Works also provided a main filter and basically on off switches for each bed. But it is set up as you describe yours. Sounds like you a nice set up. And such a large garden. I envy that. My entire drip system is only for my three raised beds. The only other vegies are in large pots (about 24 inches in diameter) sunk in the ground in my flower gardens. I have a huge amount of slugs and other such creatures to contend with. I should have wrapped the copper wire I have around the pots first thing. Now that the slugs are in the pots they will lay eggs. I need to get them protected with the copper and figure out how to kill the slug eggs before next spring.

Suggestions anyone? Come on Rick. You have an answer for everything. Rolling my eyes. Thank You!
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Aug 2, 2016 2:42 PM CST
That's a high compliment and a challenge!

>> how to kill the slug eggs

Spray the soil surface with diluted ammonia. Hos deeply can the eggs be planted? You might have to drench the pot, but then worry more about roots.

I'm not positive what concentration dissolves slug eggs without harming roots at all, but here's what I read.

"Household ammonia ranges in concentration by weight from 5 to 10% ammonia."
5-10% divided by 5 = 1-2% by weight, effective on slugs & eggs
and
"Ammonia water: 1 part ammonia to 9 parts water. (Can spray the plant, but then rinse. If you've got Lilies or Asters be extra-vigilant.)"


Make up some ammonia diluted around 5:1 or 10:1 and put that in a spray bottle.

For proof-of-concept, find a slug and a mass of slug eggs under something like a rock, and spray them.

For proof of safety, drench ONE pot with that strength and make sure the plant doesn't suffer. Then drench ONE pot of a plant you think might be sensitive.

Flush after you think the slug eggs have died.

Meanwhile, put a little iron phosphate slug bait into pots with edibles, to deter slugs from coming back and laying more eggs. Just 2-3 pieces per large pot.

Maybe put a little metaldhyde slug bait in any pot with ornamentals, to kill any adult slugs that trespass.

Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
Oberon46
Aug 2, 2016 3:40 PM CST
All sounds good. I was going to treat the pots after the plants had been pulled. Too late now to mess with anything light weight. I want them DEAD!! For next year. I will put the copper fencing around the pots before treatment to assure no new predators find their way in. Guess I might as well do the raised beds also. I think I have enough fencing for them too. I can just go light on the ends where I will fall sow some winter crops for germination in the spring.

thanks once again for 'all I ever wanted to know about (fill in the blank)! Rolling on the floor laughing Thank You! Thank You!
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
Image
RickCorey
Aug 2, 2016 6:32 PM CST
*Blush*

I tip my hat to you.

*Blush*

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