sooby said:Peter, daylily rust doesn't overwinter on Patrinia, it overwinters as teliospores, the black winter spores, (not the orange summer spores except in very mild winter climates) on dead daylily leaves and then transfers to Patrinia in spring. Of course an existing infection can also overwinter as mycelium (fungal threads) inside any daylily leaves that can stay green and alive.
The spores are are just the reproductive units, like a plant seed, the actual fungal body itself lives inside the leaves feeding on nutrients from the plant's internal cells.
Heritage as a soil drench was found to control daylily rust for 120 days with a single application, a result that was comparable to 14-day interval foliar sprays, see Dong et al, 2013 : http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/...
Maurice, yes to 1 although technically it is not the teliospores themselves that affect Patrinia but their next spore stage but it amounts to the same thing.
For 2, daylily rust urediospores (the orange ones) can be deep frozen for use in lab tests at temperatures far colder than would occur in nature. So it is not cold alone that kills them outdoors but some combination possibly combining time, light intensity, moisture and temperature.
For 3 yes if the infected leaf dies, the mycelium inside it (the body of the fungus) dies too. In some rusts the mycelium can be killed by temperatures above that which would kill the leaves but nobody has tested this for daylily rust. So to be safe we assume that the leaves need to actually be killed to kill the rust. It is possible that the fungus could be killed a little before the temperature goes low enough to kill the leaf.
Nysbadmk8 said:
As for heritage as a drench at a application rate of 0.10oz per gallon. You'd get 40 gallons Of mix for roughly 90-100 dollars.
I doubt anyone could afford that...
sooby said:
I didn't work out the cost so I'll take your word for it I know the strobilurins are expensive (I think Compass is the least so). But I was responding to a question about what I interpreted as an eradication attempt related to the question of whether one should spray both before and after when cutting back. In that case the cost of a single soil drench before cutting back might be justified if it enabled rust to be eradicated from the garden altogether, and that's definitely an if but so is foliar spraying for that purpose.
That would also have to assume that the garden in question is not in an area where rust is endemic so that it would simply blow back in on the wind, and that the gardener isn't going to buy any more plants that are carrying rust.
I notice you are rotating two strobilurins in a tank mix with two different contacts. I'm wondering why go to the expense of two different strobilurins?
One other thing to bear in mind with daylily rust is that it can have a long latent period, that is it can be present in the plants but not show any external spots, for at least seven weeks or more under certain conditions.
Nysbadmk8 said:
I'm using two for rotation as both products recommend it.
sooby said:
It has not been determined exactly how long the fungus can stay alive inside leaves without sporulating (producing spores on the outside of the leaf or scape). The only thing we know from a research observation is that it can be seven weeks or longer between exposure to spores and the appearance of the next cycle of spores.
There's more detailed info on this here:
http://web.ncf.ca/ah748/latent...
I'm not sure if this answers your question?
sooby said:Karen, I'm not sure I fully understand the question about dormant spores appearing? Rust lives invisibly inside the plant as fungal threads. Eventually these produce reproductive units called spores that you can see from the outside of the plant. This is similar to a plant producing seeds. In the case of rust, the plant is the fungus and the spores are the seeds.
Because the fungus lives inside the plant, you need for these fungal threads to die, it isn't enough to kill the spores on the outside of the plant if there is fungus inside the plant that has not yet shown itself by producing spores.
It has not been determined exactly how long the fungus can stay alive inside leaves without sporulating (producing spores on the outside of the leaf or scape). The only thing we know from a research observation is that it can be seven weeks or longer between exposure to spores and the appearance of the next cycle of spores.
There's more detailed info on this here:
http://web.ncf.ca/ah748/latent...
I'm not sure if this answers your question?
Nysbadmk8 said:
Hmm, thanks for that Info I was under the impression the MOA was different between those two Group 11's.
sooby said:
Unfortunately not. You might find this article useful, from the American Phytopathological Society about the QoI (strobilurin) fungicides. A quote:
"All QoI fungicides share a common biochemical mode of action: they all interfere with energy production in the fungal cell. To be precise, they block electron transfer at the site of quinol oxidation (the Qo site) in the cytochrome bc1 complex, thus preventing ATP formation. The preceding sentence may "seem like Greek" to even the most knowledgeable crop consultant, but it contains an important point-that the mode of action of the QoI fungicides is highly specific. Of the millions of biochemical reactions that occur in the fungal cell, these fungicides interfere with just one, very specific biochemical site."
From: QoI (Strobilurin) Fungicides: Benefits and Risks:
http://www.apsnet.org/edcenter...
Nysbadmk8 said:
Any good suggestions for rotation between the two?