I think this is either Carya glabra (pignut hickory)
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...
OR
Juglandaceae carya (Mockernut hickory)
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

But I could be wrong & it might be neither. I'm dizzied by checking multiple sites & can't seem to nail it down. One minute I'm sure it's this one; the next I'm sure it's that one.

Great photos Ann.
I was looking at both of your links. I can't decide which it would be.
Where is Lake City?

North Central Florida. 65 miles west of Jacksonville, 45 miles north of Gainesville, 35 miles south of the Georgia state line.


I've been trying to nail down this ID for a week now off & on & it's making me nuts. Every time I think I'm positive it's one then I go back & look & think that can't be it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

DH thinks it is the Juglandaceae carya (Mockernut hickory), but I think we need more research. Another great place to ask is your local extension agency.

But then look at this:

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcree...

When I look at that it doesn't match. It seems completely different. Vexed.
Extension agent is a good idea. Won't be able to get anyone for a while with Thanksgiving week upon us.

And then there's this:

http://sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Mockern...

And this:

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

Could be Sand Hickory, Carya pallida (family - Juglandaceae) Check the map at the bottom where it says "See states reporting sand hickory."

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Check under the leaves for silvery scales, and the leaf buds should have gold coloured glands..

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/tr...

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

I didn't note any silvery scales on the undersides of the leaves but I will check & get more photos & try to get more close up of buds etc...

The sites you linked help a lot Janet. More detailed info. & better photos. Thanks.

Yeah, there's Janet.

Lol, what do you agree with Ann?

I thought the fruit, nut or seed looked more like it than any but the photo of the leaf back you posted doesn't show the silvery scales, a closer view might show these or not. Until we know if it has these scales and the golden glands it's a stall job.

It seems to be important also to know how many leaflets there are, from what I can see there looks to be only five so that would mean looking at others as the Sand Hickory has 9 or as on the discoverlife site it shows 7.

I agree with the " Janet's here!"

I agree it's stall job until I can go back & examine more closely; however, I do not think it's the Sand Hickory. I have a magnification feature in my photo program & the undersides of the leaves have some scales but not to the extent that I've seen on the Sand in all the sites I've been on. I did observe while I was there that this tree as far up as I can see well enough has ONLY 5 leaflets everywhere I looked. Also on my magnifying glass the buds do not show the golden glands. BUT my magnifying glass has it's limitations & the more you magnify you can tend to lose fine detail.

I've been worrying the situation this morning all over the internet & have pretty much decided I think it's Mockernut - Carya Alba - but every photo I find has 7 leaflets. However many sites say it can have 5 which would fit.

There are a few more Hickory on the property & I'm willing to bet they are the same variety. So, I will examine very closely the tree I took photos of as well as the others & take photos of them too. I am happy that I'm learning (thank you Janet for pointing me in directions) better what to look for & make note of for ID purposes. This is great!

Will report back when I have more info. to impart.

Let's systematically go through those in Florida..

http://plants.usda.gov/java/pr...

Carya alba has 7-9 leaflets, probably not this.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya aquatica has 7-15 leaves, it's out.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya cordiformis has 7-11 leaflets, out.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya floridana has 3-7 leaflets, it's possible..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

Not sure about the deeply contrasting veins though..

http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/...

http://irrecenvhort.ifas.ufl.e...

Carya glabra has 5-7 leaflets, looking good!

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya illinoinensis has 9-15 leaflets, out.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya ovalis has 5 or 9 leaflets, most often 7.. possible!

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya pallida has 5-9 leaflets, commonly 7, possible!

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

on the above link it states: "upper leaf surfaces covered with silvery scales when young, lower surface very pale and pubescent" which contradicts what it said on the link I gave earlier.. "Leaf undersides are paler, covered with silvery scales"

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/tr...

To cap that off, the most likely going on the numer of leaflets are:

Carya glabra
Carya ovalis

Carya pallida depending on silver scales on top of young leaves, or bottom, depending which is correct!

Carya floridana leaflets really don't look right but further research might be needed.

That narrows it to the two unless proven otherwise, with Carya glabra being a strong contender due to it having 5-7 leaflets.


Carya glabra
Carya ovalis

The photos on discoverlife show some leaflets on Carya glabra as being opposite, some not quite opposite.

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

Carya ovalis..

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

Adding Carya Alba if it can have 5 leaves, more research needed!

I found a discussion on Pignut Hickory versus Red Hickory, which are the two I narrowed down to be most likely, Carya glabra and Carya ovalis

http://www.nativetreesociety.o...

A conversation about the impossibility of separating the two (link on the above site)

http://groups.google.com/group...

A convenient list with common names..

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

A site showing all the fruits, with a link to a key to Hickory if they can be separated!

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

What I have gleaned from looking at the fruits, is that C. glabra is broad at one end and narrower at the other.

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

C. ovalis fruits are rounded at both ends..

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

I haven't had a chance to check out any of that yet --- all the links. But I did want to get this on the thread. I took a nut off the tree yesterday & just now got around to taking photos of it & loading them. The nut was green/brown yesterday & already it has browned a good deal. I took from all sides & angles. Each joint of my fingers measures out just about 1 inch.

Carya floridana isn't so well represented, but the leaf margins are well toothed..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

http://www.floridasnature.com/...

Carya alba nut shape doesn't look right.. nor do the leaves..

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

http://www.wildflower.org/plan...

There's links to leaves etc on the following link, the leaves are more ovate..

http://www.ibiblio.org/openkey...

Carya ovalis looks close.. but it doesn't quite have the extended bump.

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

Carya glabra is a possibilty, the nut looks different from different angles but looks a little more tapered at one end. The pic on the link is a side-top view..

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

The nut shape looks different on this site..

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

Carya glabra (pignut hickory): approximately 2.5 cm long and 2 cm wide, pear-shaped (narrows at the base); husk thin, dark brown, only slightly splitting into segments if at all; nuts broadest near the apex, narrowed at the base; thick shell; kernel insipid or bitter.

We can rule out C. pallida..

Carya palida (sand hickory): small, 13 to 37 mm long, somewhat rounded, slightly longer than broad, covered with short hairs and yellow scales; husk thin, 3 to 4 mm thick and splitting tardily to the base by 2 or 3 sutures; nut laterally flattened, ridged, light-colored; shell very thin, 2 to 3 mm thick; kernel sweet.

Carya ovalis (red hickory): 2.5 to 3 cm long and about 2 cm wide; husk thin, about 2 to 2.5 mm thick, splitting freely to the base; nut with ridges extending from 1/3 to 1/2 its length; shell thin; kernel small and sweet.

This photo seems to show "nut with ridges extending from 1/3 to 1/2 its length"

http://garden.org/pics/2011-11...

My gut feeling was leaning towards Carya ovalis RED HICKORY, the leaves and fruit seem to match better than any.

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp...

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dend...

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

If the nut fits, I think that cinches it.

Janet, I'm going to start calling you Super Sleuth!
I'm content it's Red Hickory also. I had kept going to that several times myself. Got a real kick out of the conversation about separating the Pignut from the Red. LOL! At least it made me not feel so bad myself.
It would be a lot easier if the different references didn't contradict each other. Even for the Red Hickory I saw on 1 site where it said the shell was thin & another which called the shell thick. And 1 where it said the Red Hickory was "uncommon but not uncommon at all". Say whaaaaat?????? It got so I couldn't see the Hickory for the nuts!
I will check it again when we go out next & check the other Hickory's as well. I want to take some more photos for the database anyway so maybe it will be easier for people searching the database to determine which hickory they have.
We'll call this one solved.
Thanks Super Sleuth!