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Jan 25, 2012 12:39 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Referring to the registered vs unregistered.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 2:42 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
seems to be accepted here -

Flora Europaea Search Results
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Hits 1 to 1 of 1 matching poeticus and Narcissus and radiiflorus and subsp.


1
Narcissus poeticus L. subsp. radiiflorus (Salisb.) Baker
Family: Amaryllidaceae
Genus: Narcissus
Species: poeticus
Rank: subsp.
Reference: Handb. Amaryll. 12 (1888)
Name status: Accepted
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 2:45 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
seems to be accepted here -

Flora Europaea Search Results
Click here for information on the format of the data in this page.
page 1 of 1 showing

Hits 1 to 1 of 1 matching poeticus and Narcissus and radiiflorus and subsp.


1
Narcissus poeticus L. subsp. radiiflorus (Salisb.) Baker
Family: Amaryllidaceae
Genus: Narcissus
Species: poeticus
Rank: subsp.

Name status: Accepted

and here -



USDA ARS United States Department of Agriculture
Agricultural Research Service, Beltsville Area
Germplasm Resources Information Network (GRIN)

GRIN Taxonomy for Plants
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Taxon: Narcissus poeticus L. subsp. radiiflorus (Salisb.) Baker
Genus: Narcissus subgenus: Narcissus section: Narcissus
Family: Amaryllidaceae subfamily: Amaryllidoideae tribe: Narcisseae. Also placed in: Liliaceae
Nomen number: 429286

Name verified on: 13-Dec-2002 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 24-Dec-2002
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Jan 25, 2012 2:56 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
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Narcissus poeticus subsp. radiiflorus is a synonym on our database here:

Species Daffodil (Narcissus poeticus subsp. radiiflorus)
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
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Jan 25, 2012 2:57 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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Narcissus poeticus subsp. radiiflorus I assume is the one you are referring to jmorth?

It's accepted in the Plant List too, but in the pdf of species N. radiiflorus been given outright species status.

http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/P...

subsp. radiiflorus (Salisbury) Baker, Handb. Amaryll.: 12 (1888) = N. radiiflorus


All of the following are in bold and are accepted.

radiiflorus Salisbury, Prodr. Stirp. Chap. Allerton: 225 (1796) (Narcissus) Section Narcissus
var. radiiflorus
var. exertus (Haworth) A.Fernandes, in Daffodil & Tulip Year Book 33: 49 (1968)
var. poetarum (Haworth) Burbidge & Baker, Narcissus: 85 (1875) ('Poetarum')
var. stellaris (Haworth) A.Fernandes, in Daffodil & Tulip Year Book 33: 49 (1968)


To give radiiflorus as a subsp. of poeticus would give rise to problems with it's own subspecies.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:00 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
Daylilies Roses Orchids Miniature Gardening Lilies Irises
Thanks, Janet, and all of those are on our database, as well.
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
Image
Jan 25, 2012 3:01 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
and here -
Narcissus poeticus ssp. radiiflorus is a subspecies in the genus Narcissus (daffodil) which contains 54 species and belongs to the family of the Amaryllidaceae (Amaryllis Family). http://en.hortipedia.com/wiki/...
and here -
http://www.pacificbulbsociety....
and here -
Scientific name: Narcissus poeticus L. subspecies radiiflorus (Salisb.) Baker http://wbd.etibioinformatics.n...
and here -
Subsp. radiiflorus is under-recorded, but it may be the most frequent of the two subspecies in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. http://www.brc.ac.uk/plantatla...
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:03 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
jmorth, remember that many of these websites have old information on them which never gets changed. Please refer to my previous post.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:08 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
and here: WCSP
Accepted scientific name:
Narcissus poeticus subsp. radiiflorus (Salisb.) Baker (accepted name)
http://www.catalogueoflife.org...
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:10 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
Last one's date is - WCSP, Dec 2010
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:16 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
and here -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negra%C5%9Fi_Daffodil_Meadow...

Google has over 5000 references to this subsp.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:19 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
Daylilies Roses Orchids Miniature Gardening Lilies Irises
And Jmorth, you have illustrated beautifully why there should be one source for Taxonomy.

And it is accepted worldwide.

As Janet said:
The RHS is the International register holder for daffodils.
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:19 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Please take note of my earlier post. Smiling

To give radiiflorus as a subsp. of poeticus would give rise to problems with it's own subspecies.


As stated earlier, to list a subspecies where the authority on Narcissus, the RHS which has upated information on current research, has given this species outright status cannot work. It can work as a synonym, which means that at some time in history it has been given that name.

Note the dates, earlier names always take precedence over later names. This happened often, where another person named a plant which had previously been named. There's much shaking up now over taxonomic names both in the plant world and animal kingdom, many names are being reverted to the original one and this if often being achieved through DNA testing.
Last edited by JRsbugs Jan 25, 2012 3:23 PM Icon for preview
Image
Jan 25, 2012 3:35 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
I was under the impression the database was to assist seekers seeking info and if there's 5000 google references, you'd think ATP would have one as well.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 3:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Janice
Cape Cod, MA, USA (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums Tip Photographer
Daylilies Roses Orchids Miniature Gardening Lilies Irises
It IS on the ATP database as a synonym here:

Species Daffodil (Narcissus poeticus subsp. radiiflorus)...
There are two ways to live your life.
One is as though nothing is a miracle.
The other is as though everything is a miracle
- Albert Einstein.
Image
Jan 25, 2012 3:51 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
So you're telling me that the 5000 references to the subsp. submitted are wrong?
(which includes the US Dept of Ag)
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Last edited by jmorth Jan 25, 2012 3:52 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 25, 2012 3:57 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
References on Google can come up after years, and if you look a few pages in to the search you usually find the references are to do with something else.

We don't want to be one of those with the wrong reference, education on the correct species has to start somewhere. That is a dificult call with the many plants listed but we can at least try to get the correct references where possible.

Anyone searching for that name would find it as a synonym, a beginning to that spark of light which makes people realise there is more to plant naming than what we find on the internet. Beware of google searches, trust only in sources you know are reliable.
Last edited by JRsbugs Jan 25, 2012 3:57 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 25, 2012 4:07 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
I consider the US Dept of Agriculture reliable.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jan 25, 2012 4:26 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Maybe the US Dept of Agriculture hasn't updated their info lately, that takes a lot of work and most places don't have the time, resources nor the desire to do this. Smiling

For each plant type there is a taxonomic holder, you can find a list on ISIS. It is each registrars responsibility to maintain correct records for their given plant genera. These are spread worldwide..

http://www.ishs.org/sci/taxlis...

You will find the RHS is listed here as holding the International taxonomic list..

http://www.ishs.org/sci/taxlis...
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Jan 25, 2012 5:56 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
Now let's just think about this,...if I'm understanding Janet and Janice correctly, The one and only source of true daffodil classification is RHS or ADS.
The 5000 other references (which include John Bryan(probably considered the world's premier bulb authority), Flora Europaea, USDA, the Plant List (which dave considers valid), KEW, the European Environment Agency, En-Nomen (Pan-European Species Directory), National Genetic Resources Program. Germplasm Resources Information Network, National Biodiversity Network, and on and on...are wrong.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Last edited by jmorth Jan 25, 2012 6:00 PM Icon for preview

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