Plant Database forum: Kalanchoe luciae "Fantastic" -not Kalanchoe thyrsiflora?

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Name: Sandi
Austin, Tx (Zone 8b)
Texas Gardening
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Bubbles
Feb 2, 2012 3:31 PM CST
I was going to enter a succulent that I believe is a tri-color luciae, but the database is showing thyrsiflora. There has been some mislabeling of these plants in California that has since been corrected. I have been waiting since early December for the plant to bloom so I could be sure. It has no fragrance and is definitely urn shaped. I think luciae is correct, but I'll wait to see what others say. Not trying to open a can of worms!

I found this information to back up what I think is the correct name: http://www.smgrowers.com/info/kalanchoeluciae.asp
I also posted it on a cactus and succulent site and they agreed it was luciae.
Thumb of 2012-02-02/Bubbles/e14b7c Bloom

Thumb of 2012-02-02/Bubbles/4f2ca1

Thumb of 2012-02-02/Bubbles/a519cb Entire plant in May/2011
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
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SongofJoy
Feb 3, 2012 4:05 AM CST
Aren't they both synonyms?

The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
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dave
Feb 3, 2012 8:22 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

According to MOBOT's Tropicos, K. thyrsiflora is a synonym for Kalanchoe tetraphylla.

The same source says that Kalanchoe luciae is a synonym and should be replaced by Kalanchoe luciae subsp. luciae.

San Marcos Growers says your cultivar is a K. luciae.

Kalanchoe luciae 'Fantastic' PPAF (Variegated Paddle Plant) - This exciting new succulent, with its collage of foliage colors, is a interesting and beautiful sight. Like Kalanchoe luciae, the, species it is derived from, this plant grows...


Accordingly, I have edited the plant in question to be Kalanchoe luciae subsp. luciae 'Fantastic' with an appropriate synonym field.
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Feb 3, 2012 8:25 AM CST
Thumbs up
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
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Dutchlady1
Feb 3, 2012 8:30 AM CST
hmmmmm, not sure about this. Checking correct plant names is what I do at my work and we have established that this particular plant should be called K. thyrsiflora 'Fantastic'. There are a lot of changes in plant names afoot though....
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
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dave
Feb 3, 2012 8:33 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Well, you know way more than I do about this, and I'll be glad to go along with what you all decide.

Here is the tropicos entry that I was referencing:

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/8900496
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Feb 3, 2012 8:43 AM CST
How did ya'll determine that? Did you use The Plant List some way?
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Feb 3, 2012 9:09 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

I found the tropicos entry via the plant list.
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Feb 3, 2012 9:15 AM CST
I used The Plant List as well so just curious.

I tip my hat to you.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Feb 3, 2012 9:50 AM CST
I think both Kalanchoe luciae ssp. luciae and K. thyrsiflora are accepted names. (on Kew it is Kalanchoe luciae!)

I found a key on Kew..

http://apps.kew.org/efloras/key.do?parentkeyid=1175&keyid=11...

K. luciae ssp. luciae is on the Flora of Zimbabwe but the date is 2005..

http://www.zimbabweflora.co.zw/speciesdata/species.php?speci...

Kalanchoe luciae subsp. luciae on Tropicos doesn't have a different accepted name but has synonyms ..

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/8900483

Kalanchoe thyrsiflora is mentioned on Kew as a synonym of Kalanchoe luciae, Kalanchoe luciae ssp luciae is also said to be a synonym, but that doesn't mean Kalanchoe thyrsiflora is not also an accepted species, it just means that at some time one was thought to be the other.

http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do;jsessionid=57FF6D7...

Kalanchoe thyrsiflora on Kew.. read the notes.

http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do;jsessionid=9A78D98...





[Last edited by JRsbugs - Feb 3, 2012 9:54 AM (+)]
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Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Feb 3, 2012 9:57 AM CST
So what are we using as our "final answer"?
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
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JRsbugs
Feb 3, 2012 10:06 AM CST
Sandi, are you sure yours is the cultivar "Fantastic"? If so, smgrowers say it was derived from Kalanchoe luciae.

Your plant doesn't look to have so much red colouring but I know that can vary according to conditions. If it is a straight species, and you can follow the key you might be able to decide which it is.

Name: Sandi
Austin, Tx (Zone 8b)
Texas Gardening
Forum moderator Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Master Gardener: Texas
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Bubbles
Feb 3, 2012 11:31 AM CST
To the best of my knowledge it is, and was labeled Fantastic. I won it as a door prize at a local nursery, The Great Outdoors, when they invited our garden club to a private evening at the nursery in the fall of 2010. They were very excited about a new plant they had seen at the 2010 Tropical Plant Industry Exhibition they had attended. It had won as the Favorite New Foliage Plant. They had ordered some and offered one as a door prize. It was “Fantastic,” and I won it.

I took a pic of it in May, 2011 when it first came out of the hoop house. I mistakenly thought that was when I had received it, but I had had it about 6 months then. It is now in the hoop house and has turned pale from being inside. This is the one with the bloom that I had posted. I have another one that is similar, but not a tri-color, that is redder from being near the outside wall of hoop house. It gets the morning sun. It was the one I posted on the Plant ID.

I appreciate your help Janet, as always. I will just hold off posting my photos for the time being. Confused
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Feb 17, 2013 11:28 AM CST
Thumb of 2013-02-17/KAMasud/3f2991
http://www.smgrowers.com/info/kalanchoeluciae.asp
If the plant in pic 3 is Kalanchoe luciae, then according to link it should have yellow flowers. What is above mine?
Thumb of 2013-02-17/KAMasud/b748bf
Regards,
Arif.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Nov 10, 2014 3:00 PM CST

Plants Admin

Just an FYI regarding Flapjacks (Kalanchoe luciae 'Fantastic')
Given the changes to accepted taxon names per the COL, I changed the species of this entry back to K. thyrsiflora as per the patent. See The thread "Kalanchoe luciae" in Plant Database forum
Evan

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