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Avatar for Diamond919
Aug 1, 2011 4:20 PM CST
Name: Anita Crusoe
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Love forgives all wrongs.
Charter ATP Member
Okay, so if I am understanding you correctly, you cut up the milk jugs and 2liter bottle just like wintersowing containers (drainage holes in bottom and vent hole (no cap) on top). What do you use for potting medium? You wet down the potting medium allow to drain, then snip and stick? Do you use rooting hormone? I'm wondering if I can try some cutting out side with no covering in a flower pot or a vented dome type covering? It's been extremely humid here.

I have used the forsythe method but I lose some when it's time to transplant into the final home. I would rather root in the pot I'm going to keep the plants in. LoL That decreases the chances of me killing them LoL
Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends.
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Aug 1, 2011 4:34 PM CST
Name: Allison
NJ (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Region: New Jersey Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
in the hot weather I wouldn't use a top.. wide open in the shade is fine.. wet your medium... either seed starting mix, perlite, some people use MG but I think it's too heavy.. I use a mix of coir & perlite .. here I did an article

http://garden.org/articles/vie...

not sure why I was typing all that again Rolling on the floor laughing
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Jul 31, 2013 12:10 AM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
kqcrna said:Thanks, Bev. That's not what mine are though. They're just mutant double rud hirtas with green eyes. Mutts, essentially. This pic was last year.

Karen

Thumb of 2010-06-26/kqcrna/d072f6


Karen ~ Those are beautiful! Thumbs up

Have you thought of registering your plant and giving it a name?
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
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Jul 31, 2013 3:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Actually, I guess the birds and bees brought in new pollen, and many became black eyed susans. The green eyes seemed a stable trait after about 4 or 5 years, then many of them grew with dark eyes. Bummer. I don't like them as well. I even bought new green-eye seeds this yea (Prarie Sun) , and some of those have brown eyes, too.

Kareen
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Aug 1, 2013 8:44 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
"Prairie Sun" is probably the same as yours...at least if it was open pollinated. Smiling
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
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May 23, 2015 3:44 PM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Wintersowing in summer is what I did today. I decided to try again to germinate the cardinal climber that failed during the prime wintersowing season and figured while the seeds are properly soaking overnight (which I failed to do last time, hence why failure) I might as well fill a few more jugs.

So I sowed another round of Olympia Hybrid spinach which everyone around here LOVES! and which I may manage to grow another little crop of. I also sowed more Kenilworth Ivy because I love it and had more seeds, and another jug of Milkweed because why not? (I planted out the first batch of those yesterday.)

So three jugs and a fourth tomorrow with the cardinal climber seeds. I'll keep them shaded and await success.

Green Grin!
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May 27, 2015 8:41 AM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
And, TA DA! My cardinal climber is sprouted and going great guns. Still keeping it in the shade until true leaves form, at lest. None of the other three jugs is showing signs of life but none of those got the early start of soaking overnight (not that they should need that!)
Avatar for Shadegardener
May 27, 2015 8:49 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Your "experiment" might work well with biennials as well since they won't bloom until next year anyway. Planted this fall, that might work.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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May 27, 2015 9:04 AM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Good thinking. My thing with biennials is usually to try to get them started super early via the winter sowing so they will bloom first year. Green Grin!

Seems I recall that has worked for something or other but can't recall what. I have some hollyhocks in the ground that may bloom this year if I cross my fingers hard enough.

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Avatar for Shadegardener
May 27, 2015 10:21 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Some foxglove varieties are supposed to bloom the first year. You might get lucky with your hollyhocks since you have a much longer growing season than I do.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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May 27, 2015 3:46 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Although I had plenty of my WS seeds sprout, I'm kind of concluding that they just don't get going early enough here in the north and I think I'd be better off to just start them early, under lights. (I've never done tomatoes and peppers for that reason, so I guess it makes sense that other plants would have the same problem...) Next winter I might try planting some jugs and leaving them in the (unheated) GH instead of outside, because I think seeds sown that way would be much earlier (although I'd no doubt have to water them occasionally). Any thoughts on that Confused
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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May 27, 2015 5:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I've been wintersowing for 10 years, and honestly, it depends on the year. Most of those years I wintersowed my tomatoes but 2 years ago it was so cold they didn't sprout until early May, right after I gave up and bought plants. So the next year, I started them inside under lights...

Don't get me wrong, I love wintersowing, but it really is a leap of faith and results could vary from year to year in a temperate climate. I think it a relatively cold climate, like mine even, it works great for perennials. It usually works well for annuals, but in a cold spring, results can be disappointing.

Karen
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May 27, 2015 6:01 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Thanks, Karen -- I do think that for me it will be most useful for perennials! Thumbs up
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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May 28, 2015 7:52 AM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
My summer wintersown spinach is sprouting. Green Grin!

Sandy I think you're right, about the tomatoes anyway. Honestly if I had a good setup with lights and that I'd sure use it! and would probably develop some clarity about what works best that way and what is best winter sown. No doubt climate and zone are factors as well.
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May 29, 2015 11:55 AM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
kqcrna said:It usually works well for annuals, but in a cold spring, results can be disappointing.
Karen


I've often thought that "spring-sowing" annuals that need no stratification might give earlier seedlings if the spring-sown jugs were parked inside a low hoop tunnel with loose plastic film, maybe in partial shade or partial afternoon shade. It would overheat if sealed up, but a vented tunnel would still have an average temperature several weeks ahead of the outside air.

You might lose some of the goal of winter-sowing, that "the seeds know the best time to sprout". That seems like a good plan for perennials with dormancy that needs to be broken, and maybe seeds that do some of their germinating and growing while there is still some snow and frosts. Especoially if the perennials have a temperature requirement close to but a little warmer than your average springtime.

But if you want annual plants earlier in the spring than you can get them by direct-sowing, you might need more "temperate-ness" or warmth than you get from a single jug's walls, kept in shade.

I bet these two classes of annuals have very different needs if you spring-sow them:
1. cold-hardy plants usually planted BEFORE or near the average last frost date
2. warmth-needing plants planted after all risk of frost is over, and soils are warm.


I wonder which slows most seedlings down more: insufficient warmth in the middle of the day (daily high not high enough), or nights-too-cold (daily low too low). That might vary from species to species. I wonder if anyone experiments with the equivalent of "degree-days" for seedlings?

"Degree days" are something like this:
  • Take the days average temperature (maybe just high minus low over two)

  • Subtract the base temperature, often 70 degrees.

  • The results is how many degrees that day exceeded 70

  • (Or, if they track negative numbers, by how many degrees that day failed to reach 70)

  • The number of degree-days between two dates is the cumulative sum of each day's number.


For seedlings reaching the point where they are large enough to plant out, I speculate that the interesting statistic might be something like "degree-hours".

  • For each hour, subtract 70 from that hour's average temperature.

  • Sum up all those degree-hours from the sowing date to the present.

  • Maybe each species needs a certain number of degree-hours to make a viable seedling.


Maybe there would have to be different base temps for day and night: some seedlings "like cool nights". If so, then a failure to go BELOW some base temp at night might slow their growth.

Maybe each species stops growing or is "shocked" when nights get TOO cold. There needs to be a similar statistic for "chilling degree hours" to capture the temps that must be avoided, and how much the seedling has slowed down because of overnight chilling.

Now that I think about it, there are temperatures above which some seeds germinate faster, and temperatures below which some seeds germinate faster. They say that seedlings usually prefer cooler temps than seeds, especially at night.

And maybe the ideal temp for bringing seedlings along fastest varies as the seedling grows up. So there would be a different "ideal daily temperature" and "ideal nightly temperature" for each week or day of the seedling's life.

Maybe it's much more complicated than a simple formula can capture.

Probably just plain knowing approximately what conditions each species' seedlings prefer most for rapid growth is better than doing a lot of math. I guess we learn this from enough years of experience: this was a good spring for XYZ, so they must have LIKED the warmer-than-average nights.

But if some researchers did the research and came up with ideal numbers and curves for different species, gardeners could use that information and know how best to get each crop as early as practical in their exact micro-climate.
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May 29, 2015 12:24 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Good heavens Rick! Go take a pill or something ;-) The beauty of wintersowing is it's simplicity!

FYI
simplicity: http://dictionary.reference.co...

Karen
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May 29, 2015 12:33 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Yes, that's why it has never appealed to me.

I like to fiddle.
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May 29, 2015 12:39 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I think that's a bit of an understatement. ;-O

Karen
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May 29, 2015 3:27 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
kqcrna said:Good heavens Rick! Go take a pill or something ;-) The beauty of wintersowing is it's simplicity!


Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

I'm afraid I'm a whole lot more random in my approach to finding out how to grow various plants...

didn't grow... maybe I'll give it another try and actually ask someone else how they get it to sprout

did grow... obviously doesn't need special treatment, because it likely didn't get it from me

Well, in all fairness I do go a bit further than that in terms of trying to give those seeds what they need, and trying new things always appeals to me, but for the most part I can find plenty of plants that I like that don't really need to be catered to that much Big Grin
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Image
May 29, 2015 4:01 PM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Rick, bless my soul, that post is a work of art. Lovey dubby

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