And when you spend $$$s for them and never get to even see them bloom and be used for hybridizing .... it's an even bigger loss.

Is there no recourse through the vendors for plants that don't make it through even the first winter and never bloom?

beckygardener said: And when you spend $$$s for them and never get to even see them bloom and be used for hybridizing .... it's an even bigger loss.

Exactly.

My frustration, too, is that when we moved last year, we had an issue with our 'new' fridge/freezer that resulted in a lot of our frozen items thawing out and we were so busy with the hurried move that I didn't have time to open the pollen containers to let any accumulated moisture out before re-freezing them, so I don't know if any of my saved/frozen pollen from the plants I *did* get to bloom last year is even viable (but I'm going to try it, anyway). As a result, last year's acquisitions that were lost over the winter might be a complete loss, even on those that bloomed. I'm going to remain optimistic, though. I've been keeping the pollen frozen since then and, with luck, it's still good.

Since nearly all of the losses were plants I purchased last year, I'm going to chalk it up to them just not being well-established, for now; but I've heard that sometimes BAP can weaken the daylilies and, if that's true, I'm wondering if that factored in to my losses. Moving isn't easy on anyone, daylilies included, but a number of my losses came from daylilies that were planted early in the season last year and should have been well-enough established to survive the move in the fall after being planted an entire growing season. Or so I would think.

Seedfork said:Is there no recourse through the vendors for plants that don't make it through even the first winter and never bloom?

I don't know...I honestly didn't want to ask because I assume they would also blame it on my move and cite that as being hard on the daylilies and outside of their implied warranties. Although I do want those daylilies back, I don't want to be seen as that person. Thus far, I've only really ever asked vendors for replacements if they sent the wrong daylily.

Additionally, the vendor that I lost the most from also had his own issues to contend with and probably lots of loss of his own due to the hurricane last year, so I kind of feel guilty for even bringing it up. I'm sure my losses are extremely small compared to his. I haven't contacted him since the hurricane, though, my daylilies arrived before all of that happened.

DND - I had not heard that BAP can weaken the daylilies. (Maybe I am living under a rock or something ....) Is there any online links about this issue ?

I have lost daylilies for other reasons as well, most reasons were unknown to me, but one vendor in particular has proven to be death to any daylilies I try to grow here. None of the daylilies I have acquired from them survived long after struggling to establish here. So .... perhaps a BAP issue? They are no longer selling daylilies.

Hmm... Please don't quote me on the BAP thing, I am certainly not an expert, I just seen to recall hearing that BAP can cause daylilies to grow quickly, but not be as healthy or strong. I don't remember, for sure, who I heard that comment from, though, and I don't want to propagate a rumor that isn't true, if it's a false statement.

(edited to fix a couple of typos)

What does BAP mean??

mom2cjemma said:What does BAP mean??

Heidi, here is what the AHS says about it:

https://www.daylilies.org/ahs_...

I did a little digging around on NGA and found this thread that mentions BAP:
The thread "Encouraging Increase in Daylilies" in Daylilies forum

And Dan Trimmer wrote an article in the Dalilian Region 12 Newsletter - Fall 2008 about BAP 10 (newsletter pages 11 - 12) http://ahsregion12.org/newslet...

I have not found anywhere about it weakening the plant. (Though it would not surprise me if it does. Pushing growth on any living thing can have consequences.)

I have never used it, but it does sound intriguing. Though I wonder how risky it is for humans to work with BAP 10? I know the chemical compound used to change a dip to a tet is very dangerous to work with.

DND - Your comment about it made me wonder about mass produced commercial daylilies, which is why I asked for more info.

Maybe someone here can find more info about BAP 10 used on daylilies and any side affects....

Becky, thanks for the information.

I don't think that I have a need for BAP.....all of my plants seem to thrive quite well with my mish mash of milorganite, liquid spraying of Miracle grow and fertilizer pellets.

I do want to add alfalfa to my gardens and will picks some up at Tractor Supply this week.

I had fourteen cultivars be very sluggish coming up this spring. I made a list and made notes twice, once on May 16, then two weeks later, on June 2. By June 2 all are showing. As you can see from my list, 11 of the slowpokes were planted in 2017. At May 9th, the fourteen slowpokes were:
Spacecoast Technical Knock Out, tet, SEV, planted May 2016, growth by June 2
Star Child, dip, SEV, planted Sept. 2017, growth by June 2
Alpine Mist, dip, DOR, planted August 2017, growth by May 16
Ben Lee, dip, EV, planted Sept. 2017, growth by May 16
Big Smile, Dip, DOR, planted Spring 2015, growth by May 16
Blink of an Eye, dip, SEV, planted Sept. 2017, growing well by May 16
Blue Alert, dip, SEV, planted July 2017, growing well by June 2
Blue Flirt, dip, SEV, planted Sept. 2017, growth by June 2
Bluebird Butterfly, tet, EV, planted July 2017, growth by June 2
Classic Romance, tet, SEV, planted May 2017, growth by May 16
Dixie Blues, dip, SEV, planted Sept. 2017, good growth by May 16
Face of the Stars, tet, SEV, planted July 2014, growth by June 2 (this one did this before and was slow to come up in 2016)
Intricate Eyes, tet, SEV, planted August 2017, growing well by May 16
Anyway, I am glad to see them all come back, so at the moment I have no "goners"

I have a few that I've had for years that are always late to show up. Can't think of the names just now though.

I was pulling weeds and had to go pretty deep in a pot. Turns out Someday Maybe rotted. Never saw it bloom. Pot was under a tree & didn't get overwatered. I have no idea why it croaked. Still waiting on six or seven to show up.

I lost Bumble Bee Glee, which was iffy here anyway, and Spacecoast Shiner which only bloomed the first year I had it.

@Labelboy HI Bob! Nice to see another Nebraskan on the forum : )

Most (if not all) of the statements about BAP causing issues with daylilies are not based on objective evidence - most are hearsay as well.

Many gardeners know that if they have a plant (not a daylily - but any garden plant) that is growing with a single stem that "pinching" the growing tip will cause the plant to become bushier. That is usually considered a good result, although not necessarily if one is trying to produce large exhibition flowers perhaps. In any case what the gardener is doing by pinching (removing) the stem's growing tip is causing more growing points to start growing where there are (or were) leaves on the stem. There are axillary buds in those locations and pinching the stem's growing point changes the plant hormones so those axillary buds sprout. The plant will develop many stems.
In daylilies the stem is the crown (a condensed stem) which produces a fan of leaves and BAP is used to change the hormones in a similar way to pinching the growing point. The effect is to make the axillary buds on the crown sprout into new fans. Now if you make enough new fans from a single crown then they may be small. The more new fans the crown makes then the smaller each fan will be. That by itself may affect the survival of fans - that is their size. However, a similar thing can be done by taking a crown and cutting it into pieces. Each piece will likely sprout a new fan (until the pieces are too small). If one continually/repeatedly cuts a crown or continually treats a crown with BAP then the later in the season it becomes. So the fans become smaller and the amount of time for them to grow, produce and store resources for winter becomes less.
There are many factors involved and little or no factual objective evidence (data) that can be used to make objective comparisons about any possible effects of BAP versus crown/fan size by itself.

Last summer I moved about 3 dozen daylilies to my northern location which is a zone colder than where I live. It is zone 4. The following, which I have had for many years, did not make it. I might add that the deer didn't help matters any.
Neal Berry
Zia Ziang
At First Blush
Moonlit Caress
Queen Mother Memorial
Luscious Lollipop
Forsyth Hot Lips

Seven might not seem like a lot, but that's a pretty high percentage of what you took. I'm so sorry for your losses.

@Hemlady.
Sorry about the loss, but glad to see you back posting. The seeds I got from you last year are now seedlings with blooms on many of them.
Thanks

I am fortunate that I only lost one daylily over the winter, especially since I just started back into growing daylilies last year and planted quite a few. The one I lost was called "Here Lies Butch", rather funny and ironic given the name. I even thought of leaving the marker and adding a little cross, but decided that was just too corney, I attribute the loss to being that it was an extra small fan. I have enjoyed reading the forums on this site and find them useful and educational. You seem like a great bunch of people and I look forward to your posts and knowledge that will certainly help me along as a newbie. I am sorry for those of you that lost so many daylilies over the winter. I would be so devastated if that happened to me, not to mention the hit to the pocketbook. A lot of my daylilies will bloom soon this year and look forward to finally having something to contribute. Take care all, and keep me drooling with all those beautiful blooms!

flowerpower35 said:The one I lost was called "Here Lies Butch", rather funny and ironic given the name. I even thought of leaving the marker and adding a little cross, but decided that was just too corney,

Wow, what are the chances? Too funny!!! And I don't think the marker and cross idea would have been too cheesy, it would have been funny and would make a great story for anyone that visits the garden, LoL!