Roses forum: Ruby Voodoo - a "xeric" rose?

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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Apr 2, 2012 12:05 PM CST
Saw this in today's Denver Post:

Thumb of 2012-04-02/Skiekitty/84efbb
GREAT FOR FRAGRANCE Another new Plant Select recommendation is Ruby Voodoo rose, a fragrant shrub rose developed by John Starnes. It features dark pink double blossoms that have an intoxicating, deep rose scent. Ruby Voodoo needs much drier soil than other hybrid roses. Plant it in full sun in a mixed perennial border where it can dry out between waterings. It blooms heavily in June, and can grow to 6 feet tall unless pruned annually. (Provided by Plant Select)

I'm going to have to see if one of my LGS has this. Love the color, love the fact that it's semi-xeric!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Apr 2, 2012 1:48 PM CST

Moderator

This photo of it is not as exciting, and HMF describes it as dark red:

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.37590.1&tab=1
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 2, 2012 1:54 PM CST
Look like two TOTALLY different roses! The one the Post listed (which probably is wrong, given that its the Denver Post) looks like an Austin and the one on HMF looks like a regular HT.

Ah, here's a picture of the actual plant in action! The pic on HMF doesn't show THIS!
http://plantselect.org/support/plant_image.php?plant_number=...
Thumb of 2012-04-02/Skiekitty/57f99f

http://plantselect.org/plant-search/?plant_number=124

I'm definitely going to see if I can find this! Nick's Gardens carries a LOT of Plant Select plants, so undoubtedly they'll have this. I'm going there this Saturday after my dental appt.

Also, this: [quote="zuzu"]This photo of it is not as exciting, and HMF describes it as dark red:

]http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.37590.1&tab=1[...

How is that picture possible if the rose was introduced in 2004 and the picture is copyrighted 2001?
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
[Last edited by Skiekitty - Apr 2, 2012 1:57 PM (+)]
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Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
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tabby
Apr 2, 2012 3:19 PM CST

The 2001 picture could be from before it was introduced since it was taken in a garden of a friend of John's. John put some of his experiments in other people's gardens. I have a few of his from back the 1990's that never made it anywhere. The 2001 picture could be before the rose is fully open, but I bet it's not that red.

My guess is that it's probably that deep red/pink that is common in OGRs, given the parentage, but that's just a wild guess. Knowing John, it will be very very fragrant!
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 2, 2012 3:23 PM CST
I know that I will definitely be looking for it this spring!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Apr 2, 2012 4:47 PM CST
Will the real Rubyt Voodoo please stand up?
Porkpal
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Apr 2, 2012 5:04 PM CST
Some roses might have a long pre-introduction life. I mean, even if one planned to distribute a rose broadly it could take a few seasons to build up stock. One might take a photo before the plant is registered or introduced commercially. Or maybe Ruby Voodoo in the HMF files is a completely different plant from the one at Plant Select. This seems likely to me.

It's a little difficult for me to believe the Plant Select photo above depicts a rose with a parentage of General Jacqueminot x Stephen's Purple because the rose shown is a cluster-flowered rose that seems at least a little shrubby to me. Neither parent has either inclination: both are leggy and not very well branched; neither bears clusters of flowers. The color seems possible, but not likely. I'd expect flowers more in a dark crimson than a bright magenta.



Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Apr 2, 2012 5:15 PM CST
Oh, I don't know, our kids don't look like us either.
Porkpal
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
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tabby
Apr 2, 2012 5:58 PM CST
I agree Porkpal.
I've had an amazing variety of colors and habits come out of a single cross or even from selfs. And that old rose magenta pink seems to be hidden in the genes of a lot of roses.

Also, roses do grow shorter and denser here and since that's a Plant Select picture, I bet it was taken in Colorado. I grow some climbers as shrubs. That looks like a lot of new growth from the base. I wonder how cane hardy it is here?

It kinda reminds me a teeny bit of my Rose de Rescht, which I think I might like better because it really is cane hardy here. I hope I see a Ruby Voodoo this year at the garden centers.

Knowing John, it grows well on its own roots.
[Last edited by tabby - Apr 2, 2012 5:58 PM (+)]
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Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
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Oldgardenrose
Apr 2, 2012 7:11 PM CST
Not a rose person but the blossom has a lot of the body of an old garden rose of the gallica type. If that is a correct picture, it should be extremely popular.

http://paulbardenroses.com/main.html
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 5, 2012 9:52 AM CST
Found out that Nick's Gardens has this rose in stock, so I'll be heading there Saturday morning after dental appt to get one. Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! and see what else I can get myself into trouble with... Whistling Whistling
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Apr 5, 2012 11:17 AM CST

Moderator

Did anyone read the comment on the HMF newer photo regarding that old red shot?
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.37590.1&tab=36
Still looks wrong to me, like 2 totally different blooms.
Look forward to see what Toni comes up with!
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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 5, 2012 11:29 AM CST
Nice! I prefer the pinky purple over the red. I'll definitely take pix on Saturday. Big Grin Can't wait!! Big Grin Green Grin! Big Grin It'll be my first "Hunting" day. I'm limiting myself this year (finances) on my hunting.. last year was so crappy with the hunt. Sad Hoping this year will be better!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Apr 5, 2012 4:58 PM CST
Sue, I agree with you. I might just be able to accept the color shift since rose colors can shift quite a bit. But I don't believe General Jacqueminot as a HP has any clustering going on. And I don't believe Stephen's Purple does either. Thing is, you can cross HP's and HT's until the cows come home and you won't get a cluster-flowered rose. So where does the apparent clustering come from?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Apr 5, 2012 5:10 PM CST

Moderator

I think Sue's right. It's two different blooms. The cherry-red one has twice as many petals as the true-red one.

Steve, I think that effect is achieved by creating a bouquet for the photograph. Some nurseries do that for their photos. They cut several blooms at the peak of perfection off various parts of the rose and stick all of them into the foliage in one spot. It's a great technique for artful shots, but it's deceptive as a marketing practice because the rose bush you buy will not produce "bouquets" of that type.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 5, 2012 7:35 PM CST
porkpal said:Oh, I don't know, our kids don't look like us either.


I dunno about that. I've had complete strangers come up to me & ask if I was Rick's daughter. I had never met these people before, but because they knew my father, they were able to put 1+1 & get 3... me. I've been told I'm a spitting image of my father. Yay. Sad Thumbs down Thumbs down Thumbs down
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Apr 5, 2012 8:31 PM CST

Moderator

Does anyone object to my correcting the name of this thread?
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Apr 5, 2012 8:47 PM CST
Not I.
Porkpal
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Apr 6, 2012 8:28 AM CST
How about "Ruby Voodoo what does it really look like?" or "Ruby Voodo - is it the next blue rose?"

Toni's photo of the whole plant clearly shows clusters of roses: there's a cluster of four or five near the bottom-center of the photo. It's hard for me to believe that was arranged by the photographer.
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Colorado Ponds Roses Sempervivums
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tabby
Apr 6, 2012 8:30 AM CST
Toni, could you please report back as to whether it is grafted or own root? I've seen some plant select plants near me, but not the rose yet. I did get the plant select iceplant.

The entire plant picture that Toni posted doesn't show any mucking about to fake cluster flowering. Actually, it doesn't show all that much cluster flowering. I've had hybrid teas that were about as bad and needed quite a bit of disbudding ahead of time if I were to show them.

Although Ruby Voodoo is not all that cluster flowered, I have absolutely no trouble at all believing such an early (possibly the first) HP such as General Jacqueminot can throw cluster flowered offspring given that we know very little about its parentage. It's listed as a china seedling, but what else is in there? Given the other roses available at the time, it's very possible that it has cluster flowered roses in its genetics.

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