Avatar for Pghgardner
Aug 30, 2018 7:47 PM CST
Thread OP

Purchased a red maple from a local nursery. Was labeled as a redpointe but I do not know where they get there stock from. Everything i read stated redpointe grows with a natural good form and requires little pruning. I was unable to get good close up when I selected it at the nursery. After arrival today I realize I may have a problem, it seems to have a quad leader and I have no clue which one would be the natural leader! What can I do the tree is about 12ft tall with a 2inch caliper at ground level. I dont want to distort the tree and want it to be nice and full as it grows. Doesn't seem like any of the four would provide a true straight trunk.
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I'm thinking that cutting one of the center ones out completely and then trimming the 2 side ones back to allow the remaining center to develop into a leader would be the appropriate action? Right now the outside leaders are thickest but if I try and make them thr main leader I'd have a really crooked tree.
Avatar for Pghgardner
Aug 31, 2018 1:49 PM CST
Thread OP

Any tips anyone?
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Sep 2, 2018 11:24 PM CST
Name: tfc
North Central TX (Zone 8a)
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Welcome @Pghgardner!

I can't answer your question but now that we've created this new forum for Japanese Maples someone will hop in and give you advice.

In the meantime, can you maybe tell us where you live? I don't mean your address, just what state and general area. Thanks.

@ShadyGreenThumb? @Bonehead?
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Sep 3, 2018 5:32 PM CST
Name: Cheryl
North of Houston TX (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Plumerias Ponds
Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tropicals Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I am terrible at trimming trees and have had to ask for help for my own trees. Except for the obvious suckers or odd branching, I basically leave JM's to their own devices. The great thing about JMs is that they grow so slow, that I can ignore any obvious trimming until I am absolutely sure I don't want the branch. LOL I've said it before, It's easier to be sure about a cut than it is to have to wait for regrowth. And since JMs are slow growers, this holds true even more.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
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Sep 3, 2018 7:01 PM CST
Name: tfc
North Central TX (Zone 8a)
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I've been reading about Redpointe maples and also see that they have a dominant central leader. So now I have questions.

Based on your pictures and what I've seen on the web, are you absolutely positive that you were sold a Redpointe? It seems to be too tall at 12' to not have already developed a central leader. I know nothing about these things but am working on logic. (and that might not work)

If you only bought it a few days ago, can you go back to the nursery and discuss this with them?
Your tree looks healthy as far as I can see, but I don't think it's a Redpointe.

Hope you haven't started to prune it yet. Has it been planted? Who delivered it — the nursery that you bought it from?
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Sep 3, 2018 8:42 PM CST
Name: Cheryl
North of Houston TX (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Plumerias Ponds
Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tropicals Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Good idea to return to the nursery. I often bring photos of my plants and they tell me where to trim etc.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
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Sep 3, 2018 9:19 PM CST
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
The cental leader has been cut and this is how the tree reacted. You can see the knob where all the new stems grew from. Maples very rarely need pruning and cutting out the central leader is sacrilege. I would return it.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Sep 3, 2018 11:29 PM CST
Name: tfc
North Central TX (Zone 8a)
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Thank you, Daisy. I saw what looked to be a cut but wasn't sure. I was hoping someone with more knowledge than me would hop in here with an answer.
Avatar for Pghgardner
Sep 4, 2018 6:36 AM CST
Thread OP

Thanks for all the responses. I am pretty sure it is a redpointe it was tagged at the nursery and had the original tags from the growers on the tree, not from a big box store. Also the leaf margins look like a redpointe which from my reading is something like 98% red and 2% silver maple. The freeman maples have much larger leaves with more characteristics shared with the silver parent.
I agree at somepoint someone chopped the main leader for some reason and that caused this terrible growth pattern. I started pruning and removed 2 of the 4 leaders completely and cut the 3rd in half to either develop as a branch or remove in a year or two. I also did some subordination pruning on the leaders side shoots to allow greater apical dominance during the next growing season. I'm hoping in a few years you won't even be able to tell it was pruned and it will require it's natural shape and form.
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Sep 4, 2018 1:52 PM CST
Name: BigT
Central Illinois (Zone 5)
Birds Cactus and Succulents Sedums Sempervivums
Pghgardner

A quality nursery will take seedling trees or even yearlings that may have been grown in raised beds. They will field plant these with reasonable spacing to develop stronger, thicker trunks. During the dormant season they will dig up these trees, cut back the tap root, and tip cut the strong lateral roots to promote strong root growth. At the same time they will take soft tip cuttings from the top and strong lateral branches. Taking soft tip cuttings will allow a new, strong apical tip to develop and not give the appearance of a deformed trunk. Sometimes they will even remove the opposing bud so the two don't compete. They will remove any weak or deformed branches. Some of these trees might be sold off as bare root dormant, or potted up into nursery pots to be sold off the following spring. These are typically the best growing of their original trees. The rest will be returned to the field, given more space and grown on. They may repeat this process for as much as 5 years, depending on how much acreage they have to do so. This results in shapely, healthy, well grown specimens. This is why quality nurseries charge so much for their trees, a lot of work goes into growing nice specimens.

A low budget nursery will field plant but not do the dormant season work. Typically they plant too close together and all the trees struggle and don't grow well. These trees may develop some lateral branching but typically these branches are on opposing sides and grow out into the open rows, and have no branches growing perpendicularly as their neighboring trees block out the light. After a period of years when the trees have neared the size they desired they will take hard cuttings of the apical tip to try to induce more branching. If you look closely at your tree, you'll see there are some of these stronger branches growing opposite. These too have been hacked hard, as they were probably very long and lanky. This is the budget nursery's effort to make a weak tree look bushy and healthy. You'll notice most of the lower, longer branches are weak in comparison to the few, hacked off stronger branches, and some are water spouts. These weaker branches will not develop into strong branches, and the strong branches will be deprived nutrients by the weaker branches.

Your four tip branches are two that were the strongest original laterals and two more that developed from adventitious buds growing from the base of the stronger ones. None of these will ever truly be an apical tip, one may be trained to grow more upright than lateral but it will remain a weak point of the tree. As it grows, gets heavy, develops more lateral branches, it will weigh heavily on it's attachment to the trunk. Eventually it will give way, most likely during a strong wind storm. I'm sorry to say, there is little to be done to make this a quality specimen. The damage was done way before you purchased it and it was probably intentional that you weren't able to get a close look before delivery.

I have such a nursery not that far from me. She advertises heavily and uses stock photos of healthy specimens to entice people to come to her nursery. She does sell a lot of poor quality plants, at budget prices to an unsuspecting public. To find quality trees at a quality nursery or garden center you could pay 3 to 4 times the price. Not surprising with her budget trees, and pricing to match, that she sells a lot of stock.
Avatar for Meandmyroses
Apr 11, 2019 3:05 AM CST

DaisyI said:The cental leader has been cut and this is how the tree reacted. You can see the knob where all the new stems grew from. Maples very rarely need pruning and cutting out the central leader is sacrilege. I would return it.


I agree
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