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Avatar for MsNorris
Sep 6, 2018 11:11 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Lesley
Carmichael, Ca (Zone 9b)
Hi All,
I'm brand new to gardening. We just moved into a house last month and I've become very interested in fixing up the backyard. A friend suggested succulents as a good place to start, and gifted me this plant. The sticker on the pot said Sedum, which I now see can mean hundreds of different plants. Anyway, when it was in the bot, it was upright and compact. I transferred it to the soil in the backyard and within 24 hours it's kind of collapsed and spread from the middle, like the branches have just fallen over. I've attached a picture. Is this normal?
If anyone has a recommendation on succulents for beginners that would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!
-Lesley
Thumb of 2018-09-06/MsNorris/7a8dd8
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Sep 6, 2018 3:11 PM CST
Name: BigT
Central Illinois (Zone 5)
Birds Cactus and Succulents Sedums Sempervivums
Welcome! to the NGA forums MsNorris.
Did your Sedum have a name tag with it? It appears to be Sedum Spurius, not sure of the cultivar. It's etiolated, (pale and leggy) this could be from pots being grown to close together at the nursery or just lack of good light. That may also why it was upright when you got it. They will have some height to them but stems tend to lean over as they get longer and will creep along the ground. Other than that it looks healthy. They do like strong light, like full sun to perform well. I don't think I would subject yours to full sun just yet. It will need to be brought out gradually so it doesn't burn. Nice plant, good ground cover, and will spread fairly quickly.

Living in zone 9b you have a lot of succulents and cacti to chose from. I'll post a link for Young's Garden Shop, they have a wide range of soft (can't take freezing) and hardy succulents. There are a lot of helpful knowledgeable members here, don't be shy about asking questions.

http://youngsgardenshop.com/
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Sep 6, 2018 3:27 PM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Give PEACE a chance!
Adeniums Cat Lover Garden Photography Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox
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Hello MsNorris, ideally what you should have done first is amend your backyard soil if it is too clayish by mixing in pumice so the roots will have good airflow and drainage at root zone. Making a mound will help too so your plant's roots will not be too saturated when our winter rains arrive.

It is still salvageable, after you have made some amendments to your planting area, and planted it, give it about a few days, and water very well. During our long dry months with intermittent heat waves, succulents go quite thirsty, and when they are new, it is still trying to acclimate to the area and get established. I hope that area is part sun, I find Sedums tend to burn when exposed to our direct sun and thermal temps. Come late Fall-winter to early Spring, it enjoys the sun, since the temps are much cooler.
Avatar for MsNorris
Sep 6, 2018 3:53 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Lesley
Carmichael, Ca (Zone 9b)
Thank you both so much for the information. The ground I planted it is actually pretty loose, thankfully there isn't much clay.
The area it's in gets full sun for about half the day, the rest of the day it's in shade. Should I make a temporary shade for it while it gets acclimated to it's new environment?

Again, thank you both so much! Smiling
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Sep 6, 2018 6:09 PM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Give PEACE a chance!
Adeniums Cat Lover Garden Photography Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox
Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder
If it is morning sun that is okay, and I am glad it gets shade the rest of the day. They really need that shade protection during the hottest part of the day. When you water, do it in the morning, so that it has time to dry out before night time comes around. Nights are getting quite cooler too, which is good for them.

Give it time to acclimate to your area. As long as are our daytime highs still hitting the mid 80F's to 90F's and higher, you can water frequently. It is just too dry around us. I let Mother Nature take over when the rains arrive, by then even if it is not raining, the air is cooler, humidity is higher, and sometimes we get foggy mornings which these plants also enjoy.
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Sep 7, 2018 2:17 PM CST
Name: BigT
Central Illinois (Zone 5)
Birds Cactus and Succulents Sedums Sempervivums
Pumice you say. Unless pumice is considerable cheaper in Cali than it is elsewhere, it would preclude many from ever growing sedums due to expense. I would think CA 5 or CA 6 construction grade sands would be far more affordable and provide more than adequate drainage in even the densest clay soils. CA 5 is an industry standard, 3/8" and finer mix of sand and gravel, CA 6 is 1/4" and finer. These should be readily available through sand pits or sources for construction materials such as brick yards. I can see where soft sedums may need a little more attention to soil amendments than the hardy varieties. I don't believe that resorting to pumice is the only solution.

I admire the hardy sedums for their tenacity and toughness to grow well, and thrive under a variety of conditions.

This is Sedum Sarmentosum growing in a redwood window box planter on my front porch. It gets good light, and maybe if the winds are right gets some rain. Occasionally I'll dump a gallon of water in it when it looks thirsty. The soil was left over from when my wife was trying to grow Petunias, nothing special, no sand, no gravel, no pumice and this planter has been growing like this for close to 15 years. All of my Sarmentosum originated from some scrappy looking starts a kindly neighbor gave me.
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Same source as above, this is a redwood specimen planter that the specimens never did well in, (too many mail carriers knocking into them as they trudged up my front steps. Again the soil is noting special, 50% composted leaf litter, 50% of the black river bottom that makes up the bulk of the natural soil in my yard. This is one of two planters, growing like this. These get more exposure to full, day long sun and whatever rain nature provides.
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Beneath those is this upended log my wife uses for one of her solar garden lanterns. Snippets of Sarmentosum fall down, root up wherever, the log, the cypress mulch, cracks in the sidewalk, out from under the debris that accumulates around the planters. I'm leery of planting this in the ground for fear of it becoming invasive.
Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/c55dfb

Another upended log, this one a tad more intentional as my wife actually transplanted some of the volunteers here. No soil, no amendments, just the decaying end of the log. Full sun all day, nature provides the water.
Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/f5e5f2

The last of the Sarmentosum, I promise. 3 of the many baskets my wife loves to fill. She loves petunias and after they die off, she feels compelled to reuse them. Leftover Petunia soil, scraps of volunteers tossed on top. Full sun, no special soil, when it rains, they get wet. BTW she has 8 more of these type baskets going up each side of our front steps.
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All of the Sarmentosum is semi evergreen, dying back to the planter soil surface every winter, coming back like gangbusters every spring.

Petrosedum rupestre subsp. rupestre 'Blue Spruce' aka Sedum 'Blue Spruce' I had this growing as a ground cover, border plant for a number of years. When we redid the bed we really had no place we needed this. I did keep a some of it as I do really like it and figured if I really needed quantity again I could grow out in flat trays. The first photo is the original pot from that time. It pretty much was ignored, rain, snow, sun, blazing heat, sub zero cold and crappy soil, it survived it all. Finally this past spring the pot was perhaps half full of soil and it was starting to look raggedy. I dumped the root ball out, added some fresh soil underneath and put it back in. I did molly coddle it a little bit by top dressing with #2 poultry grit.
The next two photos are more of the same. The wife had gotten some of her beloved Petunias in wire hanging baskets with coco fiber liners. Once empty she tossed in some errant volunteers from the other hanging basket. No special care, no rooting up under special conditions. She literally tossed the cuttings on the soil, in full sun and they took. More than 10 years in those baskets and they were also looking raggedy, the birds had removed most of the coco fiber and not much soil remained. I literally scraped aside the mulch in 2 different beds and plopped the contents of the baskets in place. These are a couple months after planting, they were in pretty rough shape as evidenced by the network of old stolons.
Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/aef12e Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/67c178 Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/d1f164

Phedimus sichotensis akd Sedum sichotense. I have a nursery flat of this I'm growing out and took some cuttings a couple months back. I was curious about different soil pH and the effect it might have on growth, color etc. Left photo, soil is grit, sand, potting mix and sifted pine bark, pH is right at neutral 7. These cuttings were stuck in the soil, planter was placed in full sun on top of an upended black walnut log we use as planter stands. No nursery time to root the cuttings, I did water a little more frequently but no molly coddling at all. They look pretty happy and if you look closely you can see all the tender new shoots coming up from below.
Right photo was an alkaline soil mix. No bark, more grit, a little potting soil and "rock base" which is essentially old mason mortar that the bags got wet and the mortared hardened. They crush this up, rebag it for use as a base for cultured "rock" retaining walls as a leveler. Same full sun, water etc.. Still looks healthy but not as vigorous with this more alkaline soil mix. Although it may have as much to do with the much shallower container.
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This is a S. spurius (Phedimus spurius)NOID growing in the same mix, location as the right hand photo above.
Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/b148eb

Some cuttings from a neighbor of a red S. spurius NOID. Sandy, humusy mix. I stuck these in a small grower's pot and set on the corner of my potting bench. Full sun from day one, dunked from time to time in my rain water catch buckets. No molly coddling.
Thumb of 2018-09-07/Bigtattoo/a519f2

Hylotelephium spectabile 'Herbstfreude' aka Sedum 'Autumn Joy' These were some bare root leftovers from a big box, pop up garden center, that my wife picked up. (Yes she will drag home stray kittens too.) I wouldn't have given 2 cents for them. She was just giggly as a school girl about them. I left her to it. She potted them up in 1 gallon grower's pots with regular potting mix. They're looking pretty good to me. I will have to maybe get more involved with them come spring, cutting them back, rooting the cuttings, heck I may even put them in the ground. I have a neighbor down the block that has this growing as a border all along the sidewalks on her property. I know they are growing just in our black river bottom soil. They are evergreen all winter and bloom profusely late summer every year.
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@MsNorris. The point I'm trying to make is, you do what works for your garden. If you soils seems like it may be a bit too mucky, you mind work in some sand, and possibly pea gravel to help with drainage. If you've perused the sedums at Young's you've seen they are not that expensive to at least try some and see how well they do. Some of the softer ones you may have to provide a bit more care, as opposed to my "get tough or die" with the hardier ones.

Good luck with your garden. Post pics as it comes along.
Avatar for MsNorris
Sep 17, 2018 3:04 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Lesley
Carmichael, Ca (Zone 9b)
@bigtattoo thank you so much for the response. I am still learning to navigate this site and didn't see this response until just now. Your plants are all so beautiful! I'm really hoping to learn more about gardening in general and all of that info is mighty helpful. I've been working in the garden every weekend and unfortunately it looks like the area I've planted all my succulents is shaded in the morning and gets full sun in the afternoon. I don't think most of the succulents are doing to well so I've put up some makeshift shade until I can figure how to fix the situation. In terms of soil, I mixed in succulent potting soil with the natural dirt and so far that seems to be working.

I will try and get a picture of my poor succulents when I get home tonight, if light permits.
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Sep 17, 2018 3:15 PM CST
Name: BigT
Central Illinois (Zone 5)
Birds Cactus and Succulents Sedums Sempervivums
I would love to see pictures. It's much better to make suggestions when you can see what you're dealing with. Smiling
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Sep 28, 2018 11:43 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
Bigtattoo said:Hylotelephium spectabile 'Herbstfreude' aka Sedum 'Autumn Joy' These were some bare root leftovers from a big box, pop up garden center, that my wife picked up. (Yes she will drag home stray kittens too.) I wouldn't have given 2 cents for them. She was just giggly as a school girl about them. I left her to it. She potted them up in 1 gallon grower's pots with regular potting mix. They're looking pretty good to me. I will have to maybe get more involved with them come spring, cutting them back, rooting the cuttings, heck I may even put them in the ground. I have a neighbor down the block that has this growing as a border all along the sidewalks on her property. I know they are growing just in our black river bottom soil. They are evergreen all winter and bloom profusely late summer every year.


In your zone 5, Hylotelephium Herbstfreude are evergreen all winter?
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Sep 28, 2018 11:46 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
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They go winter dormant in my zone 8 garden.
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Sep 28, 2018 1:11 PM CST
Name: BigT
Central Illinois (Zone 5)
Birds Cactus and Succulents Sedums Sempervivums
PaleoTemp said:

In your zone 5, Hylotelephium Herbstfreude are evergreen all winter?


This is my first year having them. My neighbor down the block has a bed roughly 18" wide by 150' long that stays green all winter with no visible die back. This is between her sidewalk and the cyclone fence that borders her yard. She leaves the old dried flowers on all winter and tops them back before last frost. My older brother had a bed along his driveway, also about 18" wide and 50' long that stayed green all winter. This was along the foundation of his house and drive. Both of these plantings are so thick that weeds can't even grow between.
He didn't do anything with them, just left them be to do what they will.
I'm not sure how DW's will do overwinter in containers.
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Sep 29, 2018 2:22 AM CST
Romania, Mures (Zone 6b)
Region: Europe Roses Sedums Sempervivums
Well I have not seen Herbstfreude or other similar hylotelephium not lose their green in the winter and not go dormant in my area.
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Oct 1, 2018 10:41 AM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Give PEACE a chance!
Adeniums Cat Lover Garden Photography Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox
Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder
MsNorris said:@bigtattoo thank you so much for the response. I am still learning to navigate this site and didn't see this response until just now. Your plants are all so beautiful! I'm really hoping to learn more about gardening in general and all of that info is mighty helpful. I've been working in the garden every weekend and unfortunately it looks like the area I've planted all my succulents is shaded in the morning and gets full sun in the afternoon. I don't think most of the succulents are doing to well so I've put up some makeshift shade until I can figure how to fix the situation. In terms of soil, I mixed in succulent potting soil with the natural dirt and so far that seems to be working.

I will try and get a picture of my poor succulents when I get home tonight, if light permits.


Hello Lesley, it is now Fall season, actually at this time of the year, the Sedums are much happier now in our very dry Cali area, temps cooling down and still warms up nicely during the day. During Fall and Winter, I find the Sedums happier here in my area. They can take our very, very mild winter conditions nicely, since this is the only time they will get any rainfall. So for now the current position of your Sedums is okay for Fall and Winter. It is towards late Spring to Summer that we have to really be careful they do not get roasted by our relentless summer heat.

You have planted them inground, so hopefully you have the root area in somewhat of a mound, so it does not make water pool around it too much, if and when our rains comes around in winter. That is why it is really imperative to have pumice mixed in to the media. Fortunately, California has lot of pumice sources. Good luck on your Sedums!
Last edited by tarev Oct 1, 2018 10:42 AM Icon for preview
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