thanks zuzu, i got the obelisk for 30% off at hobby lobby. dh kept threatening to cut back mme issaac p if i didnt tie it up some how. i had been planning to do something with it but i have no problem stepping around/over/under rose canes... i guess he got hooked one to many times. im happy with how it turned out. sometimes bigger dosnt = better with rose bushes.. i was hoping it would looks sort of big and archy and floppy but i like the tight tied up look with this rose better.