@vanozzi There is a photo of a seedling Tower of Jewels (Echium wildpretii)in the Database. We have been growing them for three years here at hamilton square. Seedlings are few to germinate even with tens of thousands of them. The birds eat many of the seeds. The seedlings are now about four inches accross with a rosette of leaves flat to the ground. We grow several Echiums(9) here at Hamilton Square and there are photos of all of them in the ATP database. Four of them have seeded. I,ll photograph the some of the other seedlings and the older E. wildpretti sometime in the following week.